Episode #60: Leading with your values as a mom and business owner with Laura Jean
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In this episode, Rhonda chats with her friend and colleague, Laura Jean, about her journey to become a weight inclusive dietitian, her values as a mom and business owner, as well as how to determine and hold your own values in business, motherhood, and beyond.
Laura Jean is a dietitian by trade, weirdo at heart and 80 year old nanna by nature. She's passionate about supporting health professionals to bring more of themselves and their values into their businesses. Laura practices (and runs her business) with a non-diet, weight inclusive, trauma informed, social justice, human centered approach front of mind. She's based in Australia and when she's not challenging the status quo over at you can find her kicking back enjoying her daily iced coffee or pottering in her permaculture garden.
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LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN EPISODE
Laura’s Dietitian Values Podcast
Laura’s values-based business workbook
Laura’s 3 part podcast series on finding your values:
PODCAST LINKS & RESOURCES
Check out Rhonda’s FREE Resource Library
Pelvic Health and Fitness Podcast
Book with Dayna (Rebirth Wellness)
SHOW NOTES:
(0:51) - Welcome and intro to our special guest: Laura Jean!
(2:08) - Laura shares a little bit more about herself and what led to her becoming a dietitian
(7:39) - How did Laura transition into working with business owners on creating values-led businesses?
(12:22) - Laura shares how it’s been to navigate being a weight inclusive dietitian, as well as leading with social justice in mind.
(27:22) - How does Laura run a business that is in alignment with her personal values, as well as her values as a mom?
(41:53) - How to assess whether you are in alignment with your values in your body
(46:22) - On navigating mom guilt and modeling behavior for your children
(56:50) - How to find and navigate your own values
(1:04:33) - How you can find Laura online!
(1:05:50) - Episode wrap up!
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Episode #61: 5 practical tips to minimize pelvic floor symptoms
We're excited to have you join us for this episode of Pelvic Health and Fitness. I'm Dayna Morellato, Mom, Orthopedic and Pelvic Health Physiotherapist. And I'm Rhonda Chamberlain, Mom, Orthopedic Physiotherapist and Pre Postnatal Fitness Coach. On this show, we have open and honest conversations about all phases of motherhood, including fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, menopause, and everything in between.
We also provide helpful education and information on fitness, the pelvic floor, and many aspects of women's health, including physical, mental, and emotional wellness. Please remember as you listen to this podcast that this is not meant to treat or diagnose any medical conditions. Please contact your medical provider if you have specific questions or concerns.
Thanks so much for joining us. Grab a cup of coffee. Or wine. And enjoy!
Welcome everyone to another episode of the pelvic health and fitness podcast. Today. I am honored to welcome my friend and colleague, Laura Jean and Laura Jean is a dietician by trade weirdo at heart and 80 year old Nana by nature, which I love that she's passionate about supporting health professionals to bring more of themselves and their values into their businesses.
Laura practices and runs her business with a non diet weight inclusive. trauma informed social justice, human centered approach, front of mind. She's based in Australia. So it's 5am where she is today. And when she's not challenging the status quo, you can find her kicking back enjoying her daily iced coffee, or pottering in her permaculture garden.
So excited to have you here, Laura. And we are friends from a mentorship group, the mafia, and I've been so excited to chat with you. So I can't wait to dive in. Well, thanks so much for having me. Um, and as I was saying before we started, you know, getting up this early for all the moms out there, it's, it's a nicer reason than, you know, a screaming child or a, something like, you know, request for breakfast.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 5 a. m. hits differently when it's on your own accord versus a child waking you up. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. So how about we start, I would love to just hear and share with our listeners about you and what got you into the world of being a dietitian. Yeah. Well, I have always been really interested in food.
Um, I wanted to be a chef for a really long time. Um, and then when I was in high school, we'd in down here in Australia, we do like a two week placement work experience. So I went off to do, um, to do that and loved it. Absolutely loved, um, The, the work experience being, being in a kitchen, um, it was clearly a really like nice kitchen.
Cause I have heard some horror stories about that. Um, but I was starting like my work experience at 3 PM in the afternoon when my friends were finishing up their teaching work experience. And I was sort of like, Hmm, hold on a second. So I loved, um, love food, still love cooking, all that sort of things.
But I realized that that lifestyle. You know, I don't know why, but at 15, I had an epiphany of, no, that's not going to really work. Um, so I kind of like floundered for a bit, trying to figure out, and then I came across dietetics, which is like food and, you know, helping people and education and information sort of sharing.
There's a bit of science y stuff in there, which I enjoyed. Um, so yeah, so it was kind of really the best fit for me and it has been. I've, I've loved my, I've been a dietician for nearly 20 years, um, and I've loved it. I've done a whole heap of different roles. There's so many. Jobs, so many areas to work in as a dietitian.
Um, and so I really enjoyed that. I mean, I've been, I think one of the things that has been my saving grace in dietetics is finding that non diet approach where you really, um, looking at the why behind eating and supporting the whole human, rather than like just, you know, really hyper focused on the food stuff.
Um, and I think for me, because I came to food, to dietetics through the enjoyment of food, that was really an easy kind of concept for me. It's like, yeah, let's just help people to enjoy what they're eating. Um, so that is what got me into dietetics. Um, and I always wanted to do my own thing, like have my own business.
I did like marketing electives at uni and stuff. So I've always really been interested in that. Um, and so I've had my own business, the dietetics businesses on and off over the years. And then in 2020, when I came back to my business after my third baby, I. Added in. I just started this conversation around values and how we run our businesses.
Um, and then slowly just kind of shifted to that being my focus for my business. That's amazing. And so did you always want to work with other dieticians as well? Or was that something? When did that transition? Yeah. I've always enjoyed, like I've always found, um, the conversations I'd have with my colleagues about, I suppose, how I approach things or how I did things.
I realized that how I thought about things or how I filtered things through my own values was really different than what other people did. Um, and so I've always. Had that kind of idea that, Oh, maybe there's something here that I could share, um, that might open up, you know, possibilities for people, you know, remember when I was, um, when I was working, I moved to Adelaide, um, with my family and was working there and I was only working part time I've never worked more than I've only worked full time for the first, like.
Two years of my career. And I found, then I did like part time and I was like, hold on a second. Why is everyone working full time? Like this is the guy. Um, anyway, so I was working part time and having this conversation with somebody and they're like, Oh, so what else do you do? Do you have kids? I was like, Oh no, no, no, no.
Oh, do you have a business at this stage? It was very light. Like I wasn't really doing my business. We just moved into state. I was like, Oh no. No, no, I do a little bit of work at the uni, do like a little bit of that. And they're like, Oh, what are you doing in your other days? I was like, live my life. Like, anyway, to me, that was like a really obvious concept.
And I realized that that wasn't necessarily it. So I kind of would have conversations like that. Um, and then when I dove into doing business stuff and particularly online business, and this was back in like 2010, so like baby days of online business. And it was. Really the wild west out there. I found that a lot of the stuff just really didn't apply to help professionals.
Um, some was just like, Not legal. Um, not as in like people, other people were doing illegal things, but as far as our code of ethics and professional practice as health professionals, there's some things that we just can't do right. So, um, there was that piece and I realized that, yeah, for me, I naturally kind of found my own way, picked what worked for me, left what didn't.
And again, through those conversations, I realized for some people that wasn't just a process that happened. So I suppose I just kind of realized I looked at things a bit differently, um, and really enjoyed opening, having those conversations, just those informal conversations. I've always been a mentor as well.
Um, and a student supervisor through my roles, um, when I was working more formally or employed, I should say. Um, so yeah, so I've always enjoyed that piece. So I. Did kind of have it in the back of my head. And I was, I suppose, just waiting for an opportunity or waiting for the, the thing that actually, I suppose that aligned with my values, but also that I was passionate about talking about for an extended period of time.
Cause I would go through phases, maybe I could talk about that thing with dietitians and then I I'd get not get over it, but you know, then I'd. My interest would, would change and shift. And so I just gave myself that time and space until I kind of came across this, which I feel like I could probably talk about for our whole hour and for the rest of my life at this stage.
So amazing. And I love that you talk about values because I feel even my role as a physiotherapist, you know, looking back to when I first started, um, worked in sort of like a traditional physiotherapy clinic, which, you know, in the United States, they call it like a PT mill set up where it was just patient after patient after patient.
And, you know, now, knowing how you use language to describe things, now I have the language for that, it just did not align with my values. I remember leaving my days there, and just not really being able to put a finger on why I didn't like it. You know, I was helping people. I felt fulfilled in some ways, but in a lot of ways I felt I was doing this service to people because I didn't have time to really help them in a way that I wanted to.
And yeah, I appreciate, you know, putting language on things because some, some people might be fine working in that environment and feel like they are doing their best to help people. It was not a value alignment for me. So I think it's just so important, you know, to have this. Discussion, not only with dietitians, but just other healthcare professionals as well.
So do you find you talk to other healthcare pros as well in what you do? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because I have dietitian in my name and I have that there because I am a dietitian. Um, and so it kind of, you know, that's my background. Um, but, but being allied health, I think that we kind of, you know, physios, dietitians, speeches, social workers, like we tend to.
You know, I don't know how it works if it's similar in Canada, but in Australia, when you're working, we're often lumped in a multidisciplinary team together. But I think we have very similar experiences. We have similar trainings, the way that we are, um, traditionally positioned within the healthcare system.
So I feel like there's a real lot of crossover. And similarly, there is still in like across into like medicine and nursing and other professions, but probably I think in allied health particularly, and that's who I tend to have conversations with. EPs, yeah. Um, and also, you know, through my connections with, um, with, through Vishanta and things and through like a few more movement professionals, um, as well in other kinds of areas, but then also like have conversations with copywriters and marketers and, um, and people as well, because I think there's that, um, there's that common shared experience, like what you're sharing that we have in health of really noticing that and not.
Um, and I really like what you shared there because what's really important is that it it's not like quote unquote wrong. Like there's no binary that doing it that way is not the way you should do it. Um, it's about really getting clear on who you are and your values and finding the fit for you because.
Like you said, there's some people who would love that kind of working environment or maybe not love it, but don't have a, there's no values misalignment for them. So it works. Right. Um, and I suppose that's why that's the people who set them up. Like they, they, you know, that's, that's what works for them.
Um, and yeah, on both sides, like within that model, you kind of hope of, you know, My dream for the future is opening up the possibilities of people just being able to just question and go, is this for me? Um, but then also if people find another way, not to like have to shit all over somebody else's approach that it's like, okay, well, that works for somebody else clearly, or, you know, if it doesn't, well, that's their business and they can go on that journey themselves, but this is what works for me.
And so we can all find our own way without it. Being, um, you know, that there's, there's a good or a bad or right or wrong or a better, you know, quote unquote, I think that is the, like a bit of an ethos as health professionals or healthcare. It's always like, what's the better way? Like space practice, we're always looking for things.
Maybe it doesn't necessarily have to be better. It's just different. Maybe it's just a better fit for us as individuals and our values versus. Um, having to be the one right way, you know, there is no one right way out there. Um, and I think, yeah, as we think about how we work and how we do our businesses, or even if we're in an employment situation, we can still find a way to work that works for us.
And it doesn't, it can look like other people's way, but it doesn't have to, um, and doesn't mean either is good or bad, right or wrong. Yeah, I love that. And I think, you know, if we're all leading with our values, then we're going to be really effective, really efficient in our role. Right. Versus if we're trying to do the best way, quote unquote, but it doesn't align with our values.
Are we going to really do a good job of it? Possibly not. Right. So yeah. Like the true way for you. That's it. And then we spend our time focusing on that piece. Like, is it the right way versus is it the most values aligned way for me? Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I would love to hear more about, you know, your role as a dietitian and then venturing into a non weight, weight centered approach, because I don't know, I guess I'm not, you know, super reversed or rehearsed in that world, but in school, are you taught?
You know, about teaching people about weight loss and about focusing on weight, or how does that look? And then how did you, you know, venture into the world of not having that as a main part of your business? Yeah, definitely. Um, I think, you know, anyone who works in healthcare, healthcare setting, or, you know, you only have to watch the news to, to realize that weight and the big O word is like, you know, it's, it's the kind of, it's the thread that, that is.
Woven through all of health and all of healthcare. So definitely, um, as a dietitian, that was a really big focus in our training around when I, I trained in like the early two thousands. So it was, and maybe it was a little bit to do with the people who set up our course. I did a course that was like the first year through.
Um, and so it was, it definitely was there as far as, you know, in the science and everything, but it wasn't perhaps as hemorrhaging. We did a few other different things. We did a fun, like. Food technology classes. And so there was still a really strong food element to my dietetics degree with dietetics that can be a bit of a different focus across different unis and colleges, depending on the faculty.
So I was lucky in that, well, you know, it was good, good that there was a pretty good match for me. So, but it is there embedded. Um, and. A lot of it has to do with, I suppose, for me or what, how I've kind of reflected on it is that almost, um, you know, when we're talking about food for a lot of people, our relationship or connection to food is, you know, in the science world, we have like, you know, quantitative and qualitative research.
Um, and a lot of that kind of stuff is qualitative stuff, right? How do you feel? Um, what's the connection, whereas. quantitative, what can we count? What are the numbers? So there's blood work stuff, right? There's biochem, but weight, I suppose, stood out as a really easy metric. Um, and then there's a lot of people who are really focused on, um, or feel like it's a very simple, like food is connected directly to the shape of your body.
Um, but really it accounts for a very small percentage. And I think I was reading a stat the other day where. The percentage that we're able to change, say our, our body weight and our body height. So if I said to you, I'm going to give you a meal plan to help you to change your height, you'd be like, um, yeah, okay.
But the difference between what we can actually modify to change weight and heights, like about 20%. So, yeah, so People like really understand that height is not a very modifiable thing. There's genetics. Yes. How children are nourished in childhood can impact their growth patterns and things like that. So there's, there's that, but we, we recognize that.
Um, but with weight, we think it's really changeable, but it's actually only a very minimal difference. Um, but that's not the story we get. And it's definitely not the feeling you get, particularly in health. Um, so yeah, so that was, there's definitely the background there and absolutely I have, um. A very high level of thin privilege.
Um, and genetically that's just my body disposition. And so, yeah, I, I had this idea that, Oh, well, it's just what you, you know, that, that it was related to, um, that, that, that staying in a smaller body was easy, right. Because that was my lived experience. Um, and yeah, so then when I went into practicing, I would work with people and I'd be like, Hmm, people are doing all the things that they're quote unquote supposed to, and their bodies are staying.
The same. Wow. Staying at a state. That's their, because that is their body, right? That's their genetic predisposition. Maybe things would shift around for a bit, but everyone would hit like a, a plateau or whatever. Anyway. So for me, I'm very, I suppose, curious and very quizzical. Um, and I also, you know, the story we got.
As students, I always remember was that basically we were told that clients would probably lie to us and tell us that we're doing these things, but they weren't right. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, you know, it's even in research around that. Um, and, but I would have relationships with these clients, like the humans I was working with, we were relating, we were sharing things that were sharing their frustrations, their feelings, you know, and we had quite good connections.
Um, and I was just like. I don't think that's it. Like, it just does not fit for me. Um, from what I'm experiencing. So I suppose I just started digging deeper. Like, well, first off I was like, maybe there's something I'm missing as a, as a support person. So like did heaps of counseling really looked into the psychology of food and eating.
Um, and it was probably in, I think it was about. Three or three or four years into being a Dutch. So I'd no, actually it was like in my first year or two, there's this book in Australia called, if not dining, then what, which is by a GP down here who really actually. Explicitly kind of drew that, um, focus between food and, and all the other pieces that are, that are linked into our relationship with food.
And I was like, Oh, that makes complete sense. Um, I still had in my head that if we could get that right, then we could support people to change their bodies for sure. Um, but I definitely was looking at it more holistically from the food. So for a few years I was looking at that. Um, and then as I worked with people, um, in that approach, then I realized that.
Yeah, still just bodies are, you know, bodies. And so just got more curious, more research. So that sort of started shit, but it was very early on within the first year of working as a dietitian that I was just like, hold on a second. But I went straight into like a community outpatient setting as well. So I wasn't working in acute clinical, so I wasn't working.
So perhaps that maybe is why the penny dropped for me a lot sooner is because I was just working in that, you know, a big, a nice hour with people really being able to dive in and figure out what. Like hear their story and connect, um, and was, would work with people for, for months at a time. And so really got to see what was happening for them.
Um, so yeah, so that's kind of how it transitioned. And then just over time, I suppose I've got more radicals and, you know, just learnt more about, um, Yeah. Around the body stuff and then around the social justice lens. And so the role that, um, how bodies are treated is really connected to all of those kinds of social kind of cultural stuff going on in the background or in the foreground for some people's lived experience.
Yeah. Amazing. I feel like I have a similar experience. Uh, it took me a little longer though, but when you know better, you do better as we know. Right. And so, yeah, I feel like working in like the fitness world as a physiotherapist. We, I was just taught that, you know, exercise and how you eat is how we change our bodies.
And so, yeah, talking about, you know, objective measures versus subjective measures. We used body size and weight, you know, somebody's weight and we measured their waist circumference as a measure of their health. And like, I'm not embarrassed to admit that because that is what I knew at the time. And that is what we were taught as an objective measure of someone's progress.
But again, like a values misalignment thing, I always felt weird doing it. Like all I can say is weird. Like I didn't feel wrong or bad because people also were coming to me with those goals in mind. So it's not like I was going against their values necessarily, but. Yeah, I just always felt weird about it.
And I personally went through a lot of struggles growing up as a gymnast with my body. So I think there, you know, my values then were tied to how I felt as a human, right. And it felt icky. It felt weird. And so, you know, now going through a lot of learning and unlearning on my own end. Same thing. As soon as I learned about, you know, body size and thinness, as it ties to racism, all of a sudden my eyes were open.
I was like, Oh my goodness, why am I perpetuating the system? Right. I just had a very, like draw a line in the sand moment of like, I no longer will weigh or measure my clients. I no longer will use that as a measure for myself, but it's, it's just interesting how life happens. Right. And how values. Kind of come to fruition, I guess, as we age and we mature, because I think, you know, it was a value misalignment back a long time ago, but I just didn't recognize it or it's just, that's how we've always done it.
And so I didn't question it necessarily. So yeah, I'd love to hear more about that. Just, you know, working with your clients, does that happen where they've been doing something a certain way and they have a hard time letting go of it, even if it is like a values misalignment thing, what does that look like?
Yeah, definitely. I think, and I think even just what you were sharing there with your experience and what most health professionals have probably experienced is there's the sort of status quo, the way we've been trained, the way it's been shared. And so for the humans we work with, there's all the information that they hear from every health professional they've ever gone to from the news, from the magazines that they read from the, you know, click baby ads that come up on online from, from all of these spaces that really.
cement that link between particularly bodies and food. Um, but anything, you know, I'm sure in physio, there's some certain things that the general public hold to be true that you're just like, ah, it's just not a thing anymore. Um, or, you know, maybe it is something that we do believe and maybe there still are physios and, you know, still people do training that way.
And the science doesn't support it anymore. Um, and, but it continues because that's how we've always done it. And humans are just biased to keeping things the same. We don't really like change. Um, and part of it is just whatever our bodies are resistant to, but also. I think in health, there's a big identity piece, um, for health professionals, but also for the humans we work with around, um, it's so core that belief that We can change bodies or how bodies are impacted through, through movement and food that to actually start believing different is really big.
And it probably is similar, you know, I don't know if this is a fair correlation, but actually we're watching, um, my kids have been watching Narnia, some of the Narnia movies. Um, and you know, that was a time when people thought the world was flat, right? And some people were able just to see the evidence or see the thing and straight away, just change their blinks.
Oh, clearly it's not. Whoops. We're wrong. How bad and move on. But a lot of people, their identity is really connected with that, how they, and so it can be really hard. And so for the humans we've worked with, we work with, you know, if they have this idea about themselves and their worth that is connected with a certain body, or perhaps there were.
Significant people, particularly as children who told them who share, who, um, you know, embedded certain stories about bodies and food or bodies and worth and bodies and certain kind of characteristics, then it can be really hard to challenge that because it actually starts. You, you start pulling at that thread, right.
And it's similar to, as you start opening your eyes to things around bodies and racism and things, you start pulling that thread and it never stops. Right. Um, and. So you have to be ready for all that comes. And so some people just aren't ready for that. And a lot of it is our trust in ourselves. So for the humans we work with, it's that it's not about us as health professionals, or that we're not explaining it right, or that we've just got to find the best way, the one right way to, to get through.
I feel like it's holding space for people until they're ready to trust themselves or until there's enough. Um, we can't create safe spaces for people, but enough kind of relating happening between you and the human you work with that it creates, it holds a space for them to access their own sense of safety.
So then they can access their own sense of trust in themselves. So then they can actually trust that what we share actually applies to them. Because most people think that it doesn't, that they're not kind of worth that. little caveat that they're not worthy. Um, and so it's, it's, you know, obviously it's really complex, but I think a lot of it is just people getting to a point where they can trust themselves and trust that actually that thing is, or isn't true and that they'll still be okay, even if they shift that belief around that.
Yeah. And that there is a different way. Right. I think when we are so laser focused on like, this is the way this is what I've been taught that it's fearful to think, what else do I do? Right. I had Jordana on the podcast and we talked about that with people who are just chronic dieters their whole entire life.
And there is a sense of safety in that. Right. Cause it's like, absolutely, you know, you know, logically I'm going from diet to diet to diet. It's not working because I'm gaining weight, losing weight, gaining weight. But then the thought of just like, whoo, letting all the diets go and just eating what, whatever you want, quote unquote, that can be a very scary feeling, right?
So realizing there is a different way that you can look at things, right? It's not, again, not better or worse. It's just different, but that can be scary for people, right? Absolutely. And just even that whole idea, you know, when we say like as an objective observer, we can say, well, the diets aren't working or that approach isn't working, but as the individual in it, we think it's ourselves.
Um, and similarly, you know, in any kind of area of our life, we can see that that comes through because our cultural values are around individualism. Um, and if it doesn't work, then it's a you problem. Um, and so people need to trust that piece of themselves as well. And particularly if they've heard stories their whole lives, that they're lazy, that they can't control themselves around food, that they're, they're this X, Y, Z, and they've been blamed for the body that they live in their body, that they just genetically have, um, the, the way they relate to food, um, if that's been something they've been.
Told is a them problem very explicitly, um, which does happen, um, then that can be even harder, right? To even just have that idea that one, there's another way and that that other way might be different. Um, but also that the re that to give up, like, it's like that sunk cost fallacy to give up this path they're on of, of diets and dieting, because they might just need the one that works for them because so far it's been a them problem, you know, versus actually seeing that they're set up, you know, it's, it's it up.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. So the reason I wanted to bring you on the podcast was to talk about your role as being a mom and also owning a business. Um, I myself as a mom and a business owner, and I think a few of our listeners are also practitioners themselves and own businesses. So I thought this would be kind of a cool thing to dive into and just how, you know, you talk about values.
How does that. Okay. Bye. I just, I would love to hear how do you create a business that is in alignment with your values and then also in alignment with your values as a mom? Cause sometimes those things can like be different, right? So just, I, yeah, I'd love to see like an overall view of like what that looks like to you.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the first piece is, is, um, in disentangling in there, your values from those other values, because as mums, we are asked to take on some different values, particularly cultural, social values around what a mum might be, um, and particularly a quote unquote, good mum. Um, and there's all that stories and all that guilt and, um, I think it's first piece is knowing what are your values and are they the same as the ones that you are taking on as a mom and as the business owner as well.
Right. Cause the same stuff happens in the business world as well, that you're a good entrepreneur. If you do this, you know, if you get up, if I did get up at 5am this morning, I give myself a pat on the back, but you know, you get up at 5am and you do this and you do that. And all the moms out there are going like.
What I'm up at four 30 or I might be up at five, but there's a child clinging to me, or I might could get up at five, but I just went to bed at three after the last breastfeed. And it's like, you look at that and you just think what, how, and. Again, similar to that sort of stuff we're talking about with diets is then we start internalizing it, that there's something wrong with us.
There must be other people out there doing that. Um, but there aren't just nobody really is talking about cause there is that lots of guilt and shame and stuff. So on the business side, there's that piece that the rules or the structures and systems of traditional business was definitely never built for in, for, for us, for, for mothers, particularly, but anyone with a caring role, um, or anyone with.
Say, you know, other kind of stronger commitments around like, um, how they take care of family or whatever it might be. Um, and not saying that people for traditionally, you know, and, you know, again, it's not an either or that if I'm saying that, that that means the people who are doing those things don't care about their families.
Um, but the way the structures and the ideas and the systems and the, you know, even stuff like show up every day on social media exactly the same time or whatever it might be, you know, any of those kinds of things. They're not. Created with, with, with humans who care for other humans in mind. Um, so there's that piece, right?
So there's knowing our own values and are they aligned with what's going on? Recognizing that particularly in the business world, it's set up for, it's not set up for us, was never built for us and it was never created with us in mind because we're not supposed to be here, we're supposed to be home.
Looking after the kids so that the, the other people can be out here doing that. Right. So there's that piece and knowing that, that culturally it wasn't set up with us because we weren't in mind at the start, but also almost to block us a little bit is knowing that. There's going to be a lot of guilt and shame then because once you start doing something that's different than like you start acting into a space or you start doing things in a different way, um, again, culturally, socially, if there's these certain roles we're supposed to have, if we step outside of that, there'll be some inbuilt stuff there.
perfectionism comes in, the guilt, um, of, of, you know, Oh, you can be away from your kids, you know, all of this stuff, because all of that stuff's there to get you back in your box, to get you back in the role of the cultural social norm. So once you step outside of that, there's going to be all that stuff.
And some of it is inside of us. Like we can have internalized those messages. Nobody else even needs to say a word. We'll do it to ourselves. Um, because we've internalized those messages. And so that's why knowing our own values is so helpful because those messages won't necessarily go away, but we can ground back in our values and go, Hmm, what's the fit for me and my family.
Um, and once we actually are really clear on our values, there's so much less of a rub between how we want to show up as humans and business owners and entrepreneurs, and how we want to show up as moms it's, it, it. I wouldn't say it disappears, but it almost does because our values, we're the same people, right?
And so showing up in our values across those different parts of our lives makes it easier to show up in those values across the different parts of our lives. Will there still be times where we're tilting into different areas, where we have sick kids at home? Yeah, because culturally and socially, we still don't have the structures and things in place that.
Actually work with working moms or, or lots of other, like, you know, marginal, um, you know, under resourced identities. Um, but what, when we know our values, we can ground back in that and recognize that it's a system thing or that it's something else rather than it's something to do with us, that we're not doing enough, that we're not doing it good enough, that we're not doing it right.
And it's still frustrating and annoying and anger inducing to realize how things are as they are. Um, but then we're not internalizing it as much and not blaming ourselves, um, that those things aren't happening or are happening. So yeah, I would definitely say the biggest piece is to really get clear on our own values and to, to, to challenge the values that we are holding around those roles.
And just to check, are they my values or is it a value I'm being asked to hold by, you know, my family of origin, educational institutions, social groups, um, religious groups, community organizations, or just the, the general culture, like. Who says, who's, who's belief or who's thing is that, um, and a great little frame of reference that, um, Kelly deals, who's a feminist marketing copywriter, um, gives is, um, who benefits and who gets off the hook because sometimes who benefits is a good question, but sometimes the people who benefit are our kids.
And therefore it's a no brainer for us to go, well, our kids benefit. So that's still the right choice. Well, you know, quote, unquote, right choice. But when we ask that next question, who gets off the hook? Um, sometimes that can really highlight what's going on. So a good example is like, you know, volunteering at schools.
So, or doing things at schools. And I'm not saying not to do that, but like moms and people, um, socialized as women are traditionally the people who do the most of those things. And we ask that question, who benefits? Well, the kids benefit. So of course it's the thing we should do, but who gets off the hook?
The educational institution, the government, the, the, the non. socialized as women, carers of children. Um, and so then it gives you that opportunity to ground in your values and go, Hmm, is this the choice I want to make? Because if we just stop it, who benefits? So anyway, that's a, that's been a helpful frame for me to, to check in around that because often when our kids do benefit or when it is for our kids, we want to go straight in and do that.
Um, but if we can take that time to ground in our values and check in with that kind of little lens. It's not that we don't want to do that and we don't want to create opportunities. For most of us, we want one of the biggest, one of the benefits we want for our kids, right? Is a different world, a place where they can grow up, where it's different than what is happening now.
And we don't get that by doing the same thing. Yeah. So tricky though, right? Just think, thinking of that volunteering example. What again, I guess it's a matter of like, just do something different, but what is the alternative, right? If all these women are like, no, it's against my values to do, to help out in the school.
But I guess that's the only way change happens. Right. But I guess it's a slow process. Absolutely. But we can start asking questions or just commenting. Huh. Interesting. Just moms today. It's moms again. Oh, just moms again. Like, you know, like we can just. Call stuff out. We can say what we're noticing. And that doesn't even mean we don't have to volunteer still.
Like if we use that example, we can still show up. We can still do what is working for us in this moment. Um, even though the end goal, like that underlying stuff, maybe doesn't align with our values. It still might align with our values to do that thing, but maybe we can start different conversations and just plant some seeds, um, that things can be different or we can start at home and we can turn to our.
The people that we parent with, if, if we are parenting with somebody else and, you know, here's the PNC, PNC meetings coming up, this is happening. That's happening. Um, and, you know, and start even changing it there. Yeah. Yeah. So tricky. Um, so yeah, then when it comes to working with your clients and they, again, they're, you know, business owners, parents, how do you talk to them about differentiating them between like, what is my value and what is a taught value, because I feel like I, even just that example, I'm like, is it my value to help out at the school now?
I'm like questioning myself, right? So how, how do you do that? How do you work through that with your clients? Yeah. I think drilling down beyond the action, like a while, I feel like values are actionable is drilling down behind that. What's the value that I'm acting into when I help out at the school, like what's the value I hold, what motivates me or encourages me or tells me I need to help out at the school.
Um, and even just watching for what word comes up, need to versus should, if we're using the word should, that's a good red flag. Is this my value? If you think I should do something, usually it's a great place to start asking some questions, but just getting behind that. So like I, why, why do I want to help out the school?
Well, I want my kids to have the best. Like I want my kids to feel supported. I want their school to be a space that's safe and all those pieces. Right. So that makes a lot of sense is in volunteering or doing those things is one way. And what else does that, what other values does that perpetuate? Or what other values does that uphold?
And it upholds the same values. If it's just mums all the time, if it's just women always doing those roles, that extra caring, going that extra and volunteering, right? It's always for free. Um, is it, you know, the teachers don't show up for free, although, you know, some places they're pretty poorly paid. Um, but like we don't.
Um, we always expect, expect this thing, um, from women particularly, or, um, and under resourced people. And so it's, it's just that going that next question. Okay. And so therefore, what are the ways we can do that? Um, how can we still do that? So there's probably, and it won't ever be perfect, right? There's not one right way to do this and, and us just changing one thing doesn't necessarily mean the whole system crumbles and it's great and we can move on.
But, um, it's just one plenty, no seeds, but also just really getting clear on what is the actual value or what's the world you want to say. Um, and so sometimes I, I get people to think about, well, what's the value there? And to think about how do I act into that in my community? Yes. In my home and in my business.
And so you can get a good picture of what that would look like. And to just question some actions of, do they align with all your values? So maybe volunteering at the school. Aligns with of your values that you hold around caring and, you know, taking care, um, or something along those kinds of lines or some of the values you have around, um, you know, being a mom, um, but then maybe it doesn't align with yet if you've got some about different types of values.
So if there's another place to keep asking questions is if there's a bit of a. What feels like a rub. Um, because sometimes it might be that the value is still yours, but the way you're acting into it supports some of those other values that you don't hold or that you don't want to continue to perpetuate.
Um, and still, sometimes we, we still act. In those ways, right? Because we've got a commitment to other things. And at the moment, you know, we're still might be working on our, what will people think people pleasing part of ourselves. And so we still say yes to things, even if they feel uncomfortable. And that's, we don't have to judge ourselves.
It's just more information. How does that, what I would encourage is when we do make those choices is to really spend some time thinking, right? How did that feel? How did that feel in my body? What did I actually have to say no to? That was really values aligned for me to say yes to that thing. Because when we say yes to volunteering at the school or saying yes, what are we saying no to for ourselves and in our businesses and, you know, those other parts of our lives.
And so even when we're asking that question of, it may not be that that action is in. Disconnect with some of our values, but it might mean that we actually then miss out on the opportunities to do other things that are more aligned with who we want to be and how we want to show up. So by volunteering at the school doesn't mean we have to then take time out of our business.
Um, and you know, would we can sometimes, because we build our businesses or create these businesses for them to be super flexible for them to be part of our lives so that we can show up as the moms and the parents we want to be. That we can actually sometimes then feel like we have to say yes to all those things.
Right. Because, you know, if you were working in an employed job and they're like, Oh, volunteer at the school to do this and you've got to go to work. Well, now I'm working right. You're working in your business as well. And so. Which is the choice you want to make. And sometimes it's okay to make that choice that you choose your business and you choose yourself.
Um, again, it's grounding in your values and it's not, it's like a constant kind of tilting really for us into where, where do we want to put our efforts and energies and focus sometimes? What's the least path of least resistance. Um, but also like. Yeah, sometimes choosing your business or choosing something like that is the choice that aligns and sometimes it is, you know, we'll keep with the volunteering at the school thing, but sometimes it is that or, you know, it's making that.
And, and we can't know, and sometimes we won't always get a quote unquote, right. And that doesn't mean we failed, but that's good information. We can go there and we can look at, well, what happened? What was I thinking? How was I feeling? And we can find information that can support us to just move towards our values more to make those choices more often.
Not necessarily perfectly or every time. Yeah, I guess it is just like a constant juggle, just constant, you know, trying different situations. Hot. Sorry. You're alright.
Sorry Laura. No, you're good. I'm at the end of a like yeah. Tail end of a cold. Me too. I was like. I've been waiting for my, there was a couple of times where I've gone, okay, I got it. Um, I've been waiting for my, that's why I have my hot cup of tea there on my hot water. I came out of nowhere.
I'll get my editor to edit. So sorry, it's the worst feeling.
Okay. I think I'm all right.
So yeah, so I guess it's just a constant juggle in life, just trying things and then see how it feels in your body. Is that the best way to sort of assess? Whether you're in alignment with your values or not is how it feels, how it sits in your body. I think it's a great place to start. And that depends on the level of connection we have with our own body, right?
Our life experiences and things, you know, we were talking about dieting and diet culture before that can disconnect us from our body. So knowing how we're like, you know, so it's, it's checking that, checking in with that for sure. And just having a really clear picture of when you know what your values are, what does it look like to act into those values and having some good examples for yourself around that.
When something happens like that, when we make a choice and we're like, was that, I don't know, was that values? So yeah, we can check in. I just kind of be the scientist. I suppose that we have been trained to be as health professionals, um, to be curious about it rather than to judge ourselves. When we start judging ourselves, then we often are looking at things through that binary of good and bad, right and wrong.
Um, and there is none of that when it comes to working towards your values. Um, and so does this, does this choice move me towards my values? Um, sometimes we might've been like, Oh, No, I thought it did, but it didn't. We don't have to go into self flagellation. We can just get curious. Well, why did I choose that?
What was going on there? And sometimes there's just a lot of that socialization. Like I mentioned before, you know, perfectionism, people pleasing, imposter, all those things that we've been asked to take on, um, they'll show up, um, in our commitment to safety. As individuals, um, sometimes we just have that kind of habitual, we make that choice.
Um, and sometimes we do it really deliberately, like, because that's the best choice for us in this moment. And that's what we do, right? Like as moms, we're used to that, right? Yeah. Um, we're used to just kind of trying to, they didn't come with a manual. So it's like, what's the best choice. And, and, you know, as you go down the line, you know, one or two or three, like having more kids, sometimes you realize, Oh, I was really like stuck on that with kid number one.
And that just really doesn't. Actually matter to me, I'm realizing, but I thought there was all these things. And so instead of guilting ourselves and shaming ourselves, we can just, like you said before, we know better, we have the opportunity to do better or no different, do different, you know, um, and we can change that, um, as we go and it's okay to do it that way.
Um, and in fact. we can bring it back. Like, and I think as, as moms or as parents, there is that really nice little litmus test that we can bring it back to is around our kids is how, what kind of like, you know, what kind of world do we want for them? But also like, how would I, what would I say to my kiddo if they made a choice like this, or if they.
What do we do when our kids choose something or act in a way that's not aligned with our family values? You know, we have a conversation, we talk about it. We say, look, yep, that's, you know, we, we, we look, what do you need for more support around that? You know, if it's around emotions or whatever it might be.
And so we can give ourselves, we could turn that same, those same values we give to our kids as a mom. We can turn them towards ourselves as a mom and as a business owner. And as somebody wearing like. You know, a million and one hats in any minute. Um, and so it's a really, yeah, it's a really nice litmus test is, would I say this to my kiddo?
Is that how I would think about them if they made this kind of choice? And, um, it can open up an opportunity for us to bring a little bit more compassion for ourselves in this, because there's no right or wrong. There's no good or bad. There's no one way we're never going to get it. Like, It's a, it's a process.
It's a practice. Um, and the more compassion we can bring for ourselves, the, um, actually the more, I don't want to say easy because things like this are never easy, but there's more, we, we allow space for our humanity in the process. If we can bring that compassion. Yeah, it totally makes sense. And I feel like it, you know, applies to being a mom and a business owner that, yeah, we're never going to do things right.
So just again, you know, doing things from our values. It's so important, I think, and it only comes with experience, right? I think, like you said, with being a mom, I feel like I did a lot of things differently the second time and realize, yeah, this is more in alignment with my values. The first time probably was more, right?
Yeah. cultural norms and trying to please other people. And, but yeah, I feel like that's so challenging. How do you talk to your clients about just working through that? So, you know, maybe the guilt that people feel as a mom doing things maybe differently than cultural norms and feeling that mom guilt, is that through therapy that people work through that typically, or what does that look like with your clients?
Yeah. Absolutely. I think getting the support that works for you. So yeah, whether it's like unpacking that through therapy, um, I found, um, naming the patriarchy Steve and, uh, every time that kind of comes up, um, there's also, there's this funny, uh, flight of the Concords, it's a New Zealand comedic act.
They've got this song. Um, and it's like, who told you that? Oh, Steve. Anyway, so anytime I like, I'm starting that script, you know, um, or, and I encourage, yep, the people I work with to name, name the patriarchy if you want to, or name those systems, just to recognize that those things are not ours. And yes, they'll come up for us.
And again, we don't have to be like, Oh, I'm doing Steve's work for him again. Um, we don't have to turn that into a self flagellation project, but. Recognizing that whose values are they? And is that how I want to show up? And again, I think that kiddo thing's a good litmus test, but yeah, whatever comes up for you, like maybe it's having a coach or a support person or a mentor.
Maybe it's just having a business bestie where you. Have a chat and you can talk about your experience. There's so much, um, support and, um, value and insight we can get from being in community, being in connection around these things, um, because we're all having similar experiences. We're all grappling with the same things.
And I think sometimes normalizing that and recognizing it's not me. Um, it's not a me problem because if. Everyone is having, or most people with a similar living experience are having that issue, then it's probably not an individual thing. It's that cultural social norms or those cultural social scripts.
So, I've been in conversation, um, as, you know, Brene Brown talks, you know, wrapping words around, um, shame. You know, shame can't stand the light. So, we often hide those things inside ourselves because we think that we're the one. Doing it, you know, quote unquote wrong. So talking, sharing, whether it's with, yeah, a therapist, a mentor, a coach, or just, yeah, a friend, um, or peer.
And I think, you know, the more we have those spaces. And or cultivating them from ourselves or seeking them out if we need them, that we can actually be kind of held in that, um, because it is a process and it's a practice, right? So it's something, there's no end point to this. We're constantly changing and adjusting and reiterating.
So having spaces where we can, you know, we've all probably experienced those. You know, those mom groups we had like as, as new moms, and it was so helpful to just be like, my baby's doing this. And it's like, Oh yeah, we did that like two weeks ago. And just knowing that people are having that shared experience can really be supportive.
So I think talking, talking about what's going on for you, um, and getting super curious, um, you know, so asking questions and not criticizing ourselves, but being critical, like, you know, having that critical analysis of things, um, checking in with what's going on. And that just that simple question, does this move me towards my values?
Does this move me towards the way that the kind of, and even not just the mum I want to be, cause I think that that comes with a lot of judgments, but does it move me towards, um, you know, the kind of space I want to be holding for my kiddos, um, and also the space I want to be holding for the humans I work with when it comes to our businesses.
Um, and so, and. Am I turning my values towards myself? Because I think as people socialized as women and particularly as moms, we can be, we can forget that we are part of the equation. And so again, that kind of little litmus test around how we're showing up for ourselves, is this how I show up for the humans I work with?
Is this how I show up for my kiddos? Um, and creating the opportunity to that. And if that. Ever feels like it's in conflict, then there's a pretty good chance somebody else's values or somebody else's judgment or stuff is coming over the top. Um, so again, it's a good opportunity. So whenever we find those moments, it's just getting super curious.
Like what's going on? Whose values is this? How would I, you know, how would I show up for my kiddos? Is this the same? Um, is this the kind of world I want to be part of? Is this, and you know, if you have. With your kiddos, you know, thinking about how you are feeling or maybe a choice you wanna make in a situation.
Is this the choice I'd want for my kids if they're in a similar situation? Um, is that how I'd want to hold space for them to move forward? Um, and that can give us another good indicator. 'cause sometimes we'll do things ourselves that we wouldn't, we wouldn't want our kiddos to do. Yeah. We wouldn't want them to be doing.
And so we wanna, the way we create the world we want for them is by. Trying to, you know, sometimes poorly and badly, um, living it out for ourselves, um, and making that change then, um, we don't have to wait. For them. And in fact, them seeing us do this and grapple and talk about it, um, and share what's going on, you know, appropriately, um, you know, can, can help, can be supportive and can show them that, Oh, even mom is wondering about that or.
Even mom finds that hard, you know, particularly that example I said before, you know, sometimes when our kiddos make choices that aren't aligned with our family values, we have that opportunity to have a chat and the same way we can share with them. You know, if we make a choice, maybe in the business, mom kind of like sometimes feels like there's a rub there.
We can talk that through with our kiddos, you know, Oh, I did this and actually I really wish, or I I'm thinking that this would have been the choice I want to make in the future. And we can talk about our values and how they come up. Um, and. It's learning for us, but it's also modeling for them as well.
But yeah, I think the main thing is knowing our own values, getting super curious and bringing all of the compassion for ourselves. Um, and yeah, the other mommos, moms around us. And I think it's so important for our kids to see that, right. That, you know, um, I too am a, you know, recovering perfectionist and people pleaser.
And I feel like when I first became a mom, I was thinking, you know, I don't want my kids to see me upset. I don't want my kids to, you know, if I make a mistake, admit that, but I think that's so important, right? And I think, um, I, I'm a big fan of Bluey. Do you guys watch Bluey in your household? We do. We do.
Yeah. And there's an episode where the mom, she says that she needs a minute where she has like a timeout for herself, basically. Kids are being too overstimulating. So she goes to her room and I, you know, watch that episode. And I, I have done that and just thinking like, it's important for our kids to see that, that, you know, if a value of mine is, yeah, I need to, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, upset, it's important for me to kind of step aside and collect myself.
And so, you know, it's not that I don't love you. It's not that I don't want to spend time with you, but mommy needs that moment. And I think that's so important for our kids to see you and we have those moments because we are human. Right. And they have to see that side of us as well. Well, yeah, and it gives, it's, it's that gift of going first as well.
And that, that opportunity for them to say, Oh, you can do that. Like, so that for them, them, if they're in their own situations at school or places, they can be like, I need a minute. And the end result of all the reason that we're doing that is to try and keep ourselves grounded so that we can show up and be, you know, the moms we want to be.
Um, we have a thing, you know, when I'm in the kitchen, there's this, there's these mattresses, there's like a day bed. Anyway, the kids love bouncing on them and they're allowed to bounce on them. But when I'm in the kitchen, it's right here in my peripheries. And it's like this, like constantly bouncing.
Sorry, if you're not watching the video version, it's just like a child in my like peripheral vision bouncing. And sometimes they ask themselves. So it's like, Then my safety alerts on as well as like the visual. So I'm like, when I'm in the kitchen, it's no bouncing and it's not because you can't, you know, and it's, I think too, just like the more we talk about that, it helps us to remember what values we're grounding into,
but it also shows that kiddos, it's not, like you said, it's not about you. It's not that I don't want to spend time with you. It's not that I don't want you to have any fun. It's that it's important for me to take care of myself too. Yeah, I remember I heard your podcast episode with Chante where you talked about your, um, your morning iced coffee time and that your kiddos know that that's mommy's time and leave you alone.
And I, I do that too, you know, not really knowing how important, what that was for my kids to see when I have, you know, moments of quiet in the mornings. And I see my daughter do that now too. I express that to you on Instagram that she'll, you know, be playing with her sister. And then all of a sudden she's like, no, I need alone time.
And she tells her sister. I need alone time. And of course her sister gets upset. He gets upset and comes crying to me. Sadie won't play with me. And I said, well, what did she say? She said she needed quiet time. I said, okay, then we need to honor that. Like she's expressing what she needs. And I think that's just so cool because I didn't explicitly teach that necessarily, but I do that where mommy needs quiet time.
And it's just cool when you see that, you know, that modeling come to fruition without you really, you know, explaining it as a lesson per se. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's such an important thing is, yeah, we don't even necessarily need to be always talking and explaining, but just modeling it, um, yeah, definitely.
And modeling that, yeah, you can ask for your needs to be met. Yes. And that's okay. Um, and also that it's okay to be upset. Yeah. Um, and we can get through that, you know, it's, that doesn't mean something bad's happened if we feel emotions. Um, so both of those pieces and so, so yeah, that's pretty cool. Um, it's amazing what kids, and we know, right, we know our kids are watching us.
And so, and that's not from a pressure point of view is like, our kids are watching us. We've got to get it all right. But we just have those opportunities to, to, yeah, to live into a different world that we want for them that maybe we didn't have. Um, and the more we, yeah, we have those actions where we're challenging it, even if it is just by.
Ask him for a moment by yourself. Well, yeah, just having that little time in the day makes a difference for us as moms, but also it shows them that they can have needs too and ask for them to be met. Totally. I have one more values related question. Um, I want to be mindful of your time. So I've had the privilege of working with Laura in the mafia and we touched on basically just how to find our values.
So if there's someone listening right now and you know, we've touched on a ton of value conversation, but someone might be thinking like, what are my values? How do I even know? Is there sort of like a quick way I know again, work with Laura, everybody, if you're listening, if you want a deep dive into it, but is there a quick way that people can just kind of dive into values and figure out like, what are people's values?
Yeah, absolutely. So there's like values exercises you can do with the words and I'll actually, I'll send you a link. I've got like a, just a little PDF people can download a little workbook. So you can go through it through the words. So it depends on how you are as a human. So some people find it easy to play with words and stuff's really clear.
So that's one way you can do it. You can ask, um, ask people from different parts of your life. Like how would you say I show up or what would you say my values are? So sometimes people Find it hard to find that stuff inside themselves, but hearing other people share their experience, you can find that information, have a look through and see what the themes are.
So you can find your values that way. If you find that introspection stuff a bit trickier. And then the third way that I find is a really helpful, um, routine way to go at it. And you can do all three or you can find the one that works for you, um, is to write your, write some speeches for your 80th birthday.
So maybe write a speech from one of your kiddos, maybe from your significant other. Maybe from somebody in your family, somebody in your community, a colleague, probably you're not going to invite 80th birthday. I know, but by pretending they're at your 80th birthday and they're saying these things about you in your, or even just somebody talking about your career, right?
All the work you've done in the world or how you've shown up. It just, when we're thinking about that end towards the end of our lives, you can do it as an obituary if you like, but some people find that morbid, um, that you can actually, it's, and if people are saying, say talking about you rather than you talking about yourself, like what I want to do, um, then you can get an idea of yeah, how you want to be seen.
Um, and that can give you information around what your values are, how you want people to, to say. So they're the, they're probably three. Ways you can go about it. You can do all three or you can play around with them. Um, just as a really easy getting started on your values. Um, obviously yeah, there's, you know, it could be your life's work if you want it to be.
Yeah, but that can be a way to start just to get a bit of a picture of what's going on and for people who do sort of sense stuff or are in their bodies a bit more, even just recognizing what goes on in your body, you know, around those different values and around how you show up in your actions. We can find a lot about our values in our actions and in our judgments as well.
Um, so there are some places we can go. So I'll send, um. You the link Rhonda, so you can pop in the show notes. There's the download. I've also got like a three part podcast series sort of stepping people through some process. So I'll give you that one as well, because sometimes it can be helpful to have a little bit of support as you're going through it.
Um, just like what, what, like, cause often we kind of know. What, like, we just have a felt sense of our values, but maybe we've never articulated, or we did one of those, you know, card exercises at some point and shoved it in the bottom drawer of our desk and never looked at it again. Um, so just a way to, I suppose, get curious about it and bring it front of mind, um, and recognizing that, yeah, values can be a really helpful tool.
Um, again, if we've worked in organizations where there's values on a website and that's not what is acted into, we can sometimes have an experience with values of them being Really unhelpful, like just not practical, you know, just words. Um, but they can be so practical, they can be so helpful as tools in our lives, but also in our businesses.
Um, and I think, yeah, if we can find that, um, clarity for ourselves or start working on it anyway, cause it's not, not an end goal, um, it can, it can really make a difference. So yeah, just start by getting curious, but yeah, those three are probably the best ways to, or the, you know, a good spectrum of ways to, to come at them.
Amazing. I'm going to sneak one more question in because I'm curious about this one. What, uh, do you think people's values change over time or do you think people just get more in tune with their values over time? Oh, good question. I think they do. I, I think they change in that often the values that we take on, uh, shaped by our family of origin.
Um, sometimes that can be in connection to or in opposition to our family of origin, depending. Um, so like we're so influenced by other things. Um, it depends, I suppose, on what kind of spaces have been held for us to be curious and to be open, you know, if we've had the opportunity. Some people are, you know, are in family of origins, all that kind of space where they're really asked to question things and asked to get curious about stuff.
And some of us are just like, you know, toe the line. I mean, and there's everything in between. Right. So I think that depends on that, but I do think values change. Um, the more we know about ourselves and the more we know about the world around us and the more we question things yet that they do change, whether that is, I like that question and I'm going to have a think about it, whether that because we Peel away the layers of everyone else's values to get back to who we are at the center.
Um, or whether that, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if people are born with values. Yeah. Think about that Rhonda. Thanks. That's a good question. Yeah. But I think for most of us with our lived experience, because we have been so immersed in different layers of values and particularly for people socialized as women, because we are asked to take on all those other values, I think definitely they change because we.
We can get back at to be, we can, you know, we, we get clear about who we want to be and how we want to show up in the world for ourselves and for our kiddos. And that can really bring a lot of clarity around our values and they will change from what they were. Um, but I'm going to be reflecting on that, whether that's a, whether that is because we peel back and they were always there at the start or whether it's because, yeah, we, we learn, um, to be differently, I'm not sure.
Yeah, because I was just thinking about like just a couple examples I talked about with, you know, living into my values as a practitioner and a mom. When I think back of some of the, you know, choices I did make that didn't sit well, I think I held those values back then but I just maybe didn't have the proper tools or the experience or the wisdom.
So I don't think I was changing my values necessarily, but I was just, yeah, grounding into my values. And then as I gained more wisdom was able to live into them. Right. So it's like, had them, but yeah, it is interesting. That's a whole like existential question. Yes. Yeah. I think at the, at this stage, I would probably agree that like, I think probably those The values that we have, what changes is what we recognize as our values and yeah, how we act into our values and how much we ground in them.
Um, so the values we are acting into change, but probably our core self and our sense of self and those values have probably been there all along. Um, it's just coming back to them, right. Peeling back all the layers excavation. Like a Shrek. Yes. Yes. That's right. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.
Perfect. Most delicious thing in the world. I've heard that movie a lot. Yes. Oh yes. Us too. So thank you so much, Laura. So many amazing things for our listeners to take home. How can people work with you and how can they find you? So I hang out Dietician Values, um, and that's D I E T I T I A N is how you spell dietician, two T's, no C's.
Um, so on Instagram, that's where you can find me and also have the Dietician Values podcast. Um, and yeah, so, and dietitian values. com is my website. If you go looking for that too. So come reach out. I always enjoy having these kinds of conversations. Um, and I'm always open to continuing the conversation if people are up for it.
Amazing. I'll leave all that in the show notes. And just out of curiosity, do you still work as a dietitian with clients in that world or mostly just, uh, fellow practitioners these days? Mostly just fellow practitioners. I do do the occasional, um, with people who I've worked with for a while or some local work with some childcare centers and things, but.
Mostly just, um, yeah, holding this kind of space, um, which is where I'm kind of focused on. But also when, you know, when we come to that, finding that balance between all the other roles that we play as humans, um, and still having time for my iced coffee and, and all of those things that I enjoy. Um, yeah, that's, that's enough for this season of life.
Thank you so much, Flora. I really appreciate you chatting with me today and waking up at 5am. No problems at all. I haven't even heard a Peep. I don't know if that's because I've got my headphones on, but normally I can hear them through that. So perhaps everyone has slept through. So I might even get a chance to have a hot cup of tea after this Rhonda.
There we go. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Thanks, Laura. Thanks so much for having me.
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