Episode #66: A different way to look at food, nutrition and body size with Molly Roberts
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In today’s episode, Rhonda talks with special guest, Molly Roberts, about other ways to think about food that don’t involve dieting. Diet culture is an all-consuming way to live - and we don’t want anyone to live their whole lives questioning what diet to do next. What Molly does, and the approach she takes, will be so helpful for many folks to learn about.
“I just don’t think it’s fair that 80 year olds go on diets”
- Molly Roberts
Molly Roberts is a mom, partner and Registered Dietitian building healthy relationships with food. With over 25 years of experience in nutrition counseling and group programs, Molly offers weight inclusive care to people seeking to make peace with food and their body. Molly is a Registered Dietitian and a Certified Intuitive Eating Counsellor. Having discovered new ways of thinking about nutrition, she continues to study the concept of Body Trust and also eating disorders. Molly works towards two goals: Food justice in the form of food security for everyone in Guelph, Ontario and sharing the ideas of Health At Every Size with people.
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LINKS AND RESOURCES MENTIONED IN EPISODE
Check out Rhonda's Black Friday 50% off Sale of Strong at Home Winter
10 Principles of Intuitive Eating
Learn more about Health at Every Size
Follow Alex Light on Instagram - examples of diet-culture from the past
PODCAST LINKS & RESOURCES
Check out Rhonda’s FREE Resource Library
Pelvic Health and Fitness Podcast
Book with Dayna (Rebirth Wellness)
SHOW NOTES:
(0:49) - Check out Rhonda's Black Friday 50% off Sale of Strong at Home Winter
(2:45) - An introduction to special guest: Molly Roberts!
(4:06) - Molly tells us what led her to becoming a dietician and intuitive eating counselor
(6:27) - What led to Molly transitioning into intuitive eating and body trust after years of experience being a registered dietitian?
(7:44) - What IS intuitive eating?
(8:45) - What is Molly’s definition of diet culture, and how does she see it showing up in the nutrition and fitness world?
(13:15) - How you can care for your health, while eating intuitively and not dieting
(16:18) - What body trust means to Molly, and how she helps clients find it
(21:16) - A reclamation of the word “fat”
(26:18) - We can’t talk about intuitive eating without also acknowledging privilege. Some folks may not have the same access to food as others. Poverty and food insecurity are real things. Molly talks with us a bit about that, and how she talk about intuitive eating keeping this in mind
(31:46) - Molly shares with us about Health at Every Size
(39:43) - People aren’t eating enough for optimal health
(41:46) - Weight stigma in the medical field, and how Molly recommends we approach relationships with family doctors who are weight-focused, instead of whole health-focused
(46:58) - If someone is struggling with food and their body and they don’t know where to go next, what kind of advice would Molly give them?
(50:15) - One thing that Molly wants to leave listeners with today…
(51:20) - Episode wrap up
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Episode #66 - A different way to look at food, nutrition and body size with Molly Roberts
We're excited to have you join us for this episode of Pelvic Health and Fitness. I'm Dayna Morellato, Mom, Orthopedic and Pelvic Health Physiotherapist. And I'm Rhonda Chamberlain, Mom, Orthopedic Physiotherapist and Pre Postnatal Fitness Coach. On this show, we have open and honest conversations about all phases of motherhood, including fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, menopause, and everything in between.
We also provide helpful education and information on fitness, the pelvic floor, and many aspects of women's health, including physical, mental, and emotional wellness. Please remember as you listen to this podcast that this is not meant to treat or diagnose any medical conditions. Please contact your medical provider if you have specific questions or concerns.
Thanks so much for joining us. Grab a cup of coffee. Or wine. And enjoy!
Welcome everyone to another episode of the pelvic health and fitness podcast. Today I am honored to welcome registered dietitian and intuitive eating counselor Molly Roberts. Molly is a mom, partner, and registered dietitian building healthy relationships with food.
With over 25 years of experience in nutrition counseling and group programs, Molly offers weight inclusive care. To people seeking to make peace with food and their body. Molly is a registered dietitian and a certified intuitive eating counselor. Having discovered new ways of thinking about nutrition, she continues to study the concept of body trust and also eating disorders.
Molly works towards two goals, food justice in the form of food security for everyone in Guelph, Ontario, and sharing the ideas of health at every size with people. Thank you so much for joining me today, Molly. Oh, thank you. I'm really pleased to be here. Yeah, and I was just saying before we hit record, I think what you do and the approach that you take is going to be so helpful for people to learn more about and learn that there's another way to think about food that doesn't involve dieting, right?
I think that's what we always consider eating, eating healthy is dieting, right? Yeah, before we get into that, um, I'd love to just hear a little bit more about you. We got your bio there, but just hear a bit more about you, what led to you becoming a dietician and then into like the intuitive eating space.
Yeah. So, yeah, so I have been a dietitian for quite a long time. Um, and, and I got into it because I, I, you know, I was looking for, um, something, something science-y that was also a helping profession. And I'll, to be honest with you, later in life, I've always wished I became a physio, but, uh, yeah, but I did become a dietitian a long time ago.
So, and, um, You know, I did a lot of work in a lot of places in hospitals and in public health and in, in a lot of different settings before I had my kids. And always with folks who had barriers to health or folks who are dealing with those, um, social determinants of health, whether it's income or access to healthcare or, um, Well, how it always turned out was access to food.
And so, um, it felt like useful work. And also there was times when it felt awkward, right? Sometimes dieticians are sharing, sharing evidence based information, but sharing evidence based information from the 90s. Yeah, sometimes, right? I can remember going to, uh, oh, in university going to like a, um, an event for nutrition students and, and I was happy to be the one kind of coordinating the event, but in, it was in the nineties, it was a lovely gathering, a wine and cheese and, and my fellow nutrition students, more than one came up to me and said like, is this low fat cheese, right?
That's, that's. You know, that's what it was like to be a dietitian in the 90s is, is that you, even your colleagues, um, couldn't fully enjoy all foods. Um, Yeah, so I stayed home a little bit with my kids and when I came back to working, um, yeah, I discovered this new way of thinking, which was intuitive eating and as someone who lives in a larger body and considers themselves a fat dietician, it was really a wonderful discovery to find out there were some different ways of thinking about food and nutrition, um, for all of us.
I love that. And so what, uh, led you down that path, Molly? Were you frustrated with your own ideas and thoughts about food? Well, I can, I can say for sure that Intuitive Eating is not just something that I've learned about in an effort to help other people. It certainly is something that has been a helpful tool for me and just to recognize that this is, this is part of my story and part of my healing.
Um, but really what happened is I, uh, When I came back to work, I connected with a dietitian who was already aware of these ideas. Um, and so it, it was pretty mind blowing for me, right, to, to hear this stuff and, uh, to hear her way of thinking. And, um, yeah, I kind of caught fire from there because I thought, oh, this was, this is why I'm still a dietitian.
Yes. Amazing. And how far into your career did that switch happen for you? Oh, yeah, pretty far. I think this would be like, yeah, maybe 2014 is when I may be first hearing about these ideas. Yeah. And, you know, took a while to, to get some of the ongoing education. But yeah, now I'm just in love with some of these ideas and finding ways to share them with other folks.
Amazing. Awesome. So for the listeners that are listening today and might not know without going into, you know, too many details, but what is exactly intuitive eating? Yeah, intuitive eating is, it sounds so very simple, right? And, uh, it sounds, sounds like. Just eat what you want, whenever you want, uh, which is certainly how some of the teenagers at my home interpreted it.
Um, but what it is, is a sort of a set of principles, a framework that helps people, um, get away from. To, to adjust how they, um, connect to food and how they choose what to eat. And so, so some of those things are like tuning into your own body, knowing when you're hungry, knowing when you're full. And so it takes the rules away from other people and diets and lets you sort of be in charge of your own, uh, consumption.
And, and it's a little harder than just eat what you want whenever you want, but so can be so valuable for some folks. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And, uh, we, we talked on this podcast a little bit about diet culture and its role in our life and how it kind of controls everything we do. Um, what is your definition from your perspective of diet culture and how does it, how do you think it shows up in our world of like nutrition and fitness?
Oh, yeah, and does doesn't it show up all the time. Um, yeah, I sort of think of diet culture as those external rules that we all know. Um, I think of the way I grew up in the 80s as like we were all sort of swimming in a soup and it was just soaking into us this idea of, of diet culture. Yeah, so it just seems like a set of external rules that guide all our choices around food and around fitness and it's a lot of should do this, should do that.
This is a firm rule and we must obey it. So, um, yeah, diet culture is almost the opposite of the idea of intuitive eating. Right. In a lot of ways, and I see it, I guess, a lot of people see diet culture more and more, um, the longer they are noticing it, and, uh, some of the places I see it is, it's just, uh, astonishing, right?
Like, uh, I, uh, went out for breakfast. Two weeks ago, and I with some ladies I used to work with at a nonprofit. And so some of those folks are a bit older than me and they're they're just about 80 years old. And that was the hot topic at breakfast that day. The 80 year old almost 80 year old had started.
A new diet. And that was all that we could talk about for quite a while. Um, I just don't think it's fair that 80 year olds are going on diets. I agree. Yeah. I had a similar experience happen. So I, um, you know, the listeners know that I'm a physiotherapist and I've worked in a gym for most of my career.
And so. With that comes, you know, folks that might be wanting to lose weight. And, you know, I always say to said to clients, you know, I won't dismiss that. And, and I will also challenge you to think outside of that and what else can we maybe work on, um, outside of weight loss. But this person was in her sixties.
And, um, I remember it was after I had my second daughter. And I naturally exist in a smaller body. And so genetically my body went back to what it was without at that point I had, you know, broke up with diet culture. I always say after my second daughter and, um, started intuitive eating, even though I didn't necessarily follow, you know, like, uh, intuitive eating guideline per se, just started, like you said, just listening to my body cues, listening for fullness cues, actually.
You know, not, uh, like starving myself or binging, like starting to just like let go of all those habits I used to have in my body. Again, just genetically naturally went back to its size. And I remember this, um, client who again was in her sixties say like asking me, what did you do to lose the baby weight?
Like she was very curious about like, what did you do? And I just remember we had such a heart to heart in that moment. And I said, honestly, you're not going to want to hear this, but I did nothing. I didn't do anything. I just. Um, and so I, I, I ate the way I want to eat and listen to my body, all those things.
And we had a heart to heart about that. Just about, is this the way you want to continue living your life? It's just like looking for that next diet, looking for that next. What is the secret? How is this going to finally work for me? Instead of just enjoying our life, right. Instead of just enjoying food and enjoying going for dinner and not thinking about calories or all of those things, right.
It's just, it's a very. All consuming way to live. And yes, you know, that story of the person in their 80s. Just ask yourself that, right? Like, everyone listening right now, is that how you want to live into your 80s? Is questioning which diet you're going to do next? Like that, I don't, I know I don't, right?
So yeah, and it's hard. It's hard when that's all we know, right? I think that what can be scary for people. is they've only ever known, quote unquote, eating healthy as dieting. So then, in some people's brains, it's like letting go of that equals letting myself go and not caring about my health, right? So, do you want to just touch on that, Molly?
About the difference between like, you can, yeah, you can still care for your health and still eat intuitively and not diet. Well, here's the thing that it's, I just feel so unjust, um, for people, often women to have that as a health goal, weight loss with the, with the intention of, of caring for themselves.
Um, when it's an unattainable goal, like we have so much research that demonstrates that weight loss is possible for 3 to 5 percent of the population, like, and weight loss being kind of a longer term weight loss. Um, Like, we wouldn't prescribe it. We wouldn't give ourselves ibuprofen if it worked 3 percent of the time, like, or, um, yeah, anyhow, it just, it just seems, um, almost cruel to, to people to have that as a goal and not, and it's not their fault.
It's exactly what we were steeped in. We really did grow up. A lot of people grew up thinking that they had control over their, um, Weight that there was something that they could manipulate one way or another. And um, yeah, I would argue that maybe we don't. Um, and so that leaves us with, is there a possibility for, for accepting our life the way it is, for accepting our bodies the way they are, the shape they are, just like your genetics, you probably look similar to other people that you're related to.
Me too. I look a lot like my cousin, Linda. We have the same body shape.
No surprise really. And yet I've spent years feeling bad about it. Right. Yeah. And that's the thing it's then, you know, looking into what is the definition of healthy to you? Right. So diet culture will tell us, you know, do all these things at the expense of your health, honestly. Right. It's, you know, be small is the ultimate goal and yeah.
Starve yourself, binge, whatever it takes to get you there. Is that healthy, right? If the goal is health. I would question that's, that's not healthy, right? Yeah, and we have some, some information that would indicate that it isn't healthy, right? That, that, um, that, uh, restrict binge cycle that is so common post diet, um, to, to diet and then to need to eat more.
Um, and, and that, that flip flopping or what they call yo yo dieting and how it, how it affects our metabolism, right, and how if the, if, if the goal really was to keep our weight at least steady, you know, that, that, that's the part that messes, it's the dieting that messes it up. Most people gain. Gain back a little bit more weight, and then do it again, gain back a little bit more weight.
Again, it's not to say that being a higher weight is a bad thing, but if, if your real goal was to keep it lower or steady, you're just making it harder to achieve that. Um, Yeah. Um, I'd love to talk to you a little bit more about body trust. So you said in your bio that, uh, body trust is a perspective that you take.
So I guess for you, what does body trust mean to you? And then how do you help your clients find trust, body trust? Yeah, Body Trust. So I first, I started by studying intuitive eating and, um, found it really, really fascinating. Um, and I learned a lot and, uh, I still use that. But Body Trust is, um, a similar but not the same paradigm, um, that seems to take in, um, the fat perspective better, um, or, or helps folks.
That that are coming coming to this in a in a larger body. And so I've been studying a little bit with with those folks as well. What I really love about about that is they they're working so hard on the language and holding themselves accountable for for finding ways to talk about this and appreciating the perspectives of of different marginalized or unheard groups.
Right, so there's, there's, they are doing some great work out through the Portland in the States there. But, um, what I love about the idea of, of, of learning to trust your body is, is again, bringing that control back to you and letting you be in charge of what's going on. Um, You still work for this woman who, you know, I grew up working in restaurants who, uh, she used to, she would try to teach us to cook and her big message was always like, she'd be cooking, she'd be making orange roughy, and she's like, who's in charge here?
You or the fish? . And I, I feel like body trust that that's partly what it's telling you. Who's in charge of this? Is it you, uh, or are you gonna let the fish be in charge or the society be in charge? So I, I appreciate that. It is hard to help people get to this way of thinking, and I'll admit it's a challenge for me because it's so hard to shift mindsets from what folks grew up with into this new way of thinking.
So a lot of what I do is just the planting of seeds, um, hoping That even if it doesn't happen in our session together or our next session together, that we're having conversations, um, that might help people see themselves differently or give themselves a bit more compassion, um, going forward. Yeah.
Because I get it. People still want weight loss and I understand it both personally and professionally. I love that. And the compassion piece I feel is so huge. I know that was a huge part of my journey. And I think diet culture works a lot through shame, right? And, you know, I think probably there are studies to show shame can work for a certain amount of time for behavior change, but it's not a long term solution, right?
I think the only. And so, that we can get to a long term solution is through self compassion, self understanding, and self trust, right? That goes with that. So until you start to be kind and gentle to yourself, you're not going to be able to trust yourself, right? Because you're so used to following these rules and, you know, not listening to your body.
So that, I'm sure that's just a long journey for a lot of people. Yeah. Yep. I imagine it is. It certainly has, you know, been long for me, but I'm enjoying this journey now. It's helpful. Yeah. It's really helpful. It's lifelong, right? I think it's, you know, a lifelong journey to get to where we are and then it's lifelong unlearning or relearning or whatever, however you want to say it, right?
To have a different perspective, different mindset. What I do love is, I've been seeing a few more younger people and, and or talking to younger people and what's fascinating is They get it. Like there's, there's less of what we received or what I've seen for people today. And it's so encouraging to hear that and see them pick up on these ideas.
Of course, we wouldn't think this other things or, um, or I see younger people being comfortable. In their body or more people. I think yes, comfortable in their body. Then then we're around when I was growing up. So that's helpful to hear. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that is a huge motivation for myself. And, you know, hopefully listeners listening that have children.
I, that was a huge motivation for me to break up with diet culture, improve my relationship with food and exercise. I don't want to pass along the lessons I learned. I, you know, my mom has passed. I loved her dearly. The lesson she taught me about food, we're all in the culture. We, they were raised in right at all weight watchers and yeah, fat is bad and all of these things.
Right. And so. I am motivated to do things differently for my kids. So it's great to hear that you're noticing that, that there is a trend towards a different way of thinking. I know, I have noticed you even sort of mentioned in your bio, just using the word fat in a, in a different way, right? Um, I feel like I've heard that through some younger generation kids of understanding that fat is not a derogatory word.
It's not a bad word, right? It's, it's a descriptor. So taking that back, do you want to talk a little bit about that and just like the language of it? Yeah, I remember reading, like, finding out about this use of the word or reclaiming the word fat. Um, and, and being bewildered by it because it sure did sound like a bad word to me.
Um, but yeah, I'm on board now. And I, I understand that. By using it and having it be more neutral, uh, being a, having it be a term like tall. Yeah. Um, is, is a really good way to, to kind of cut the stigma or kind of move away from the good and bad in, in some of those words. Um, it's hard for people and it's not so hard for me anymore, but it's hard for other people because I do get that response still of, Oh no, you're beautiful.
Or don't say that about yourself. I'm like, well, it's, it's okay with me. I don't mind, you know, I'm cool with that term. And, but it is hard for other people. Right. Um, but that's part of the purpose of using it. Then you get to have a conversation about it in a, in a perfect world. And, you know, I feel a little bit like an evangelical dietician sharing the good word of body trust and health at every size.
So, but that's how it happens, right? It's these little pockets of conversations that then that person, they're like, Oh, interesting. I never thought of that. And then they might tell somebody, right. That's how it happens. Yeah, let us hope so. Yeah, let's hope so. Yeah, I know even with my kids, my daughter, I think I shared this with Roseanne Robinson when she was on, um, my oldest daughter came home from school and a kid in her class said to her, Sadie, because I, I, you know, again, I, we talk about how food is just food.
There's no good or bad food. So I send like chocolate, I'll send cookies. I'll send things in their lunch that are just food. And, um, a boy in her class said, Sadie, you need to stop eating so much chocolate, or you're going to get fat. So she came home and told me this and, you know, my mama beer instincts, of course, we're like, Oh, but it, you know, allowed us to have a great conversation about that.
And I said, how did that make you feel? It made me feel sad. Why did it make you feel sad? Because he said it in a way that made it sound like that was a bad thing. And I'm like, okay, let's talk about that. I said, what is wrong with being fat? And she's like, nothing. Cause we talk about that. Like, you know, some people are in larger bodies.
Some people are in smaller bodies. Some people are tall. Some people are short, you know, we're made the way we're made. She's like, yeah, that's right. And so I said, yeah, next time she didn't really know what to say. Cause that, yeah, she was four or five. Um, but next time, you know, say, yeah. So. That's okay. Or something along the lines of like, you know, what I eat is, is my business or something like that.
Right. I think it's, it's hard for a little kid, but yeah, it was like a good teaching moment of that is not a bad word. And that like, not let that hurt your feelings. If somebody says that to you, Yeah, I can remember this is probably the first time I'd seen it done, but I, uh, when you're becoming a dietician, you have to intern for a year after after a university.
And so I interned out in Alberta in Edmonton. And for some reason, I was doing, um. A rotation at Parks and Recreation with this amazing woman and she was living in a larger body and she could make light of it in a way that started conversations and at the time it was shocking for me. Uh, like I couldn't believe she could joke around.
I couldn't believe she could talk about it with other people in the, whatever that was, mid nineties. Um, But I've often used that strategy now to like just the other day there was there was some boys. I work, also a nonprofit and so I was at the food bank picking up some food for somebody and they have to weigh it in and out right.
And someone walked across the scale. And this volunteer. There's a younger guy who maybe didn't, um, know all the social mores about women walking across scales. And he's always, he's talking about her weight and yelling out the numbers. And anyway, um, but we just, I just started joking around about, he was saying, well, you're not fat.
I think it's a good number. You're not fat. And just, you know, I just, oh, not that there's anything wrong with being fat, right? Like, you know, standing there as a fat person, like it, it helps people, right? It takes some of the stress away from the conversation. If you can, I guess, add a little humor to it. So.
Add a little humor and just own it. Yeah. I, I am, this is me. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And not, you know, get embarrassed or get offended. It's yeah, it's, this is me. One if, and if people have some strong feelings about it, they aren't, I don't think, likely to challenge it to your face on it, so. Right, right. Love that.
So, yes, Molly, in this conversation, you know, we can't talk about intuitive eating without acknowledging privilege, right? So, you talked about this in your bio, some folks might not have the same access to food as others. Poverty, food insecurity are real things, right? So, can you talk to us a bit about that?
And how do you talk to your clients about intuitive eating with keeping that in mind? Yeah. Yeah, this is, uh, this is so hard, uh, especially right now. Yeah. Um,
it's, it's, it's a, it's a nasty situation where those of us who work in food access and, and helping get food out to folks who need food, um, knowing full well, it's not the ultimate solution. Knowing the ultimate solution is that people have enough money to buy their own food that they want. But, um, yeah, it's really tricky.
Um, I work with a lot of folks who have lived or living experience of food insecurity, and because it's often not new, it's often a part of their life, they grow up with this idea, and I do hate this phrase that beggars can't be choosers, or that you're just, you're, Entitled to the food that you get and they don't and there isn't choice involved.
And so that's where intuitive eating kind of falls short, um, because so much of the model is based on an idea that, um, you should give yourself unconditional permission to eat. It's hard if you don't have unconditional access to food. Um, I remember working with somebody who was really prepared to try this, try this on, and in her case, um, she wanted to work on what's called habituation.
So, um, it's just getting used to having that food around. Um, so in her case, it was ginger ale. So she I found it hard not to drink a lot of ginger ale, and so the method that would be encouraged into a meeting is to have, to have ginger ale around all the time. To have it there, to drink it whenever you want it, and just go with that until the point that you're used to having it there, and you're, it's not thrilling anymore.
It's, it's just ginger ale. It's just another thing. Like, there was no way for her to do that. There was no way for her to have that much ginger ale available all the time, that she could have constant access to it. I will say there's Yeah, there's some other stuff that that's like that you can access as someone living with low income or poverty and and I guess the thing that I find interesting is is that good food bad food, and at least that can be part of the conversation because with.
Without a lot of choice, um, and without a lot of a financial, um, yeah, without, without being able to choose your own foods or pay for any food, you end up buying things that are very cost effective and they're not always what we would have in the past considered healthy. And so there's, there's that layer on top of everything like it's hard enough and then society tells you that you're eating bad food.
So I do think at least that principle around. You know, the food police and and sort of talking more about what good foods and bad like all food is good food. And if you don't have any food, any food is also good food. But we still all need to keep working towards finding a way. That everybody has access to what they actually want to eat, not just, you know, what we can, what we can try to cobble together and provide in the meantime.
Yes. Yeah. Do you find that then with your clients that have some food insecurities, then are also tacking on guilt about what they're eating? Do you find that happens a lot? Yeah, totally. Totally. Right. And especially women. Yeah. And it, you know, it's all often, just like in the pandemic, I think they say that the people who are, the long term effects are often women, because you're caring, caring, caring, caring, and putting yourself second.
And I think we see that too, right, with low income households, with moms who are It's such a natural way to get into the binge restrict cycle, right? Because there's just restriction is built in because so often people are letting, making sure their kids eat or making sure their working partner is eating.
Um, and so they're just so naturally restricting and then maybe it's the first of the month and your check comes or something, and you find you've got food for a few days, we're going to spend it in a way that gets you the most food and then. It's so hard not to overindulge when you're starving. Yes. Yes.
Thank you for sharing about that because that is a perspective that we all need to talk about and need to be aware of for sure. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, can you to change gears a bit? So health at every size is something you mentioned in your bio as well. And, you know, I know a bit about that, but some of our listeners might not be aware of that approach.
So could you tell us a little bit more about what does health at every size mean? Yeah, so health is every size is, is, uh, is sort of what it sounds like, uh, in that everyone can access health. Um, it is a set of principles that, um, promotes things like health equity, um, ending that weight discrimination or weight stigma that we see in the world.
Um, And can help to improve the access to health care because that that is a dangerous piece we see with with weight stigma and people not accessing their health care for fear of being treated poorly or or because they have a history of being treated differently because of of their size, whatever size that is.
So, um, what I like is this idea of. It being an alternative to a weight centric approach. And certainly that's, that's how I was educated. That's what I understood was a weight centric approach where you came to see the dietitian that probably the first thing we did was weigh you and calculate your BMI.
I'm sorry.
But yeah, I think Health at Every Size, um, has the, has the possibility of helping change all of that, and it's, uh, it's a, it's a set of principles, I think, that is, that's had its, it's had some challenges, but I see them re, reforming and revamping and, and similar to Body Trust, like listening to the voices who, listening to the voices of lived experience, which I really think trumps this.
Thank you. I'm all for research, but I think voices of experience trump everything. So I see that happening, um, with the idea of health at every size too. Um, I will say we're not obligated to be healthy. We don't have to be healthy, but a lot of, a lot of us want to be healthy or we feel better when we are more healthy.
Um, and I think health at every size has allowed the development of, of some other things like, um. Well, like the work that you do, like weight inclusive, other weight inclusive fitness, I see more and more things that include like a weight inclusive yoga or yoga for people with eating disorders, or I think there's a new hiking group, right, not too far from here that is, is for folks in larger bodies, um, just to break down some of those barriers, um, that have been in place before that some people have felt, um, in trying to, to use, say, traditional gyms or something like that.
So, yeah. Yeah, amazing. Yeah, I think that's an important point that you don't, you don't have to be healthy. Right? I think that is also a stigma that gets attached to people where, well, if you're not losing weight, or if you're eating a certain way, like, I'm just concerned about your health. And it's like, this is my body, right?
And there's, you know, that stigma that like, if you're not taking care of your health, you're a horrible human being. But we're just trying to live our lives, right? I think that's, yeah. Part of it too, and sometimes again, health is all encompassing, right? So sometimes, you know, if you're going through trauma or you're, you know, going through a stressful time.
Sometimes eating a certain way might be beneficial for your health because it's just comforting it's helps you feel better in your body, right? And so is that a bad thing? I don't think so, right? So it's just it's such a complex topic health, right? It's how do we talk about health, right? It's it's so all consuming all encompassing.
And so, yeah, I think health at every size is, you know, beautiful in the sense to that we can here. Work towards health, promoting behaviors. I always talk about that, like health, promoting behaviors, being exercising, eating, whether that's whatever that that is for you, sleeping, you know, working on our mental health, working on all those things.
And then our size is just our size, right? Like, it's not because we want to be small, right? I think we've all been led to believe we're doing A, B and C to get to the certain smaller body. But like, can we just work on all those things and just let our body be what it's going to be? To me, that's a beautiful way to look at it.
Yeah, for sure it is. And as hard as that is for folks, it's um, I think once you feel the benefits of some of those health promoting behaviors, it gets closer, right? It gets easier to, to want to do those things more, um, regardless of the, the numbers piece. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll just share like from a exercise perspective.
I know I hear this sometimes with folks that may be exercised in the past only for changing and shrinking their bodies where people almost have like a rebellion against exercise because it was such a shaming, punishing activity in their life. So they sometimes people will sometimes go through a phase where they just don't want to exercise because they're like, it's been so negative for me.
I need to just distance myself from it and then maybe at some point come back to it in a healthier way. But I, I wonder, I think that can probably sometimes happen with food for people too, right? Where there's almost like that rebound effect where you've dieted and restricted for so long. All of a sudden you're, you know, I'm going to try this intuitive eating thing and I am just going to eat everything and anything that I see.
And not that there's anything wrong with that, but I think maybe then, like you said, once you allow yourself that unconditional permission, eventually food will lose that, its power over you because you do give yourself permission. I know that was what was my journey was like, after I sort of broke up with diet culture, I had sort of like a rock bottom moment where I did try a diet.
It went horribly wrong. I didn't want to live my life that way. Started to just, yeah, give myself permission to eat unconditionally. And then over time, those foods did lose their power over me. And now it is, I'm thankful. And again, I can say this from a thin privilege perspective, that like my body didn't change a whole lot, uh, when I did that.
But I did sort of have like that rebound where I just wanted to eat everything. And then it just lost its power. Do you find that a lot with clients that you see that behavior as well? And it's kind of like, uh, before you have a baby and you think you know what having a baby is like, or having a child in your life.
Like it's, it's hard to explain how much control food is having over you until you're a little bit free of it. Um, I, you know, I never would have thought beforehand, for instance, that I could have a neutral relationship with chocolate. It was a great tool for me. It was, you know, emotional eating can be a, can be a useful tool.
If you're living a stressful life, it might not be healthy, but it can be useful. Um, But yeah, that's, that was what, that was, for me, that was my first thing to try was this having full access to chocolate whenever. And yeah, I still like chocolate. I can have chocolate. But I don't have to have chocolate, and chocolate doesn't haunt me.
I don't have to think about it all the time. Um, and there's, that freedom is, is really beautiful, so. It is. But it's hard to take that leap, right? And, and then have your scary foods around all the time, so. For sure. But yeah, it is incredibly freeing, for sure. So I think, again, those of you listening that might be thinking like, oh my goodness, that's some kind of sorcery.
How am I gonna have chocolate in my house and not binge on it? And I, like, I get it, right? You know, I, you and I both kind of went through that and it is, yeah, it's hard to change that, but it is possible for sure. Yeah. There you go. Well, it's just that so many of the people that I, that I see in my, in, in this work is, um, they just aren't eating enough, right?
Like there's so many people who, um, for whom, I just can't believe it. So because they maybe they're not eating breakfast or maybe they're not eating some other meal and here they are beating themselves up about feeling badly about their numbers. When in fact, what they actually need to do is get a little bit more calories in just so your body's not thinking it needs to conserve everything.
Um, and it, it sort of continues to surprise me, but I think it's worth noting because, uh, um, well again, it just feels unfair. Yeah. People are trying so hard and they're, they're almost working against themselves when, when they could, could have access to a little bit more nutrition in their day. So. Yeah.
And, you know, I always think in those moments where I maybe have a day where I don't eat enough and then I find myself eating, you know, chips at night. And I think back to my day and I'm like, thank you body for like feeding me. Right. Cause it's, it's a safety, it's a primal safety mechanism, right? Where if we limit our intake, our body will be starving.
So we will binge. It's not like if, and when it's like, we will. Yeah. Because our body needs that food. So it's not a willpower issue. It's not anything you're doing wrong. It's a safety primal mechanism of continuing to fuel our body. Yeah. You're so right. Yeah. And there's that beautiful self compassion, right?
And understanding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you body for keeping me fueled. Right. That's what we can say in those moments. Yeah. And then maybe tomorrow I'll feel you a little bit better throughout the day. So I don't have to, you know, binge on a food at night. Yeah, because sometimes binging can also make you feel kind of crummy, right?
Like, just physically crummy, even if you leave out the emotional part, so. Yes, exactly. Um, I wanted to touch on too, just like the weight stigma piece, because I, I did have a couple clients that I worked with that, you know, expressed this, that they had. lived experience of going to see a doctor for, I think one person was a knee, one person was an ankle, and number one thing their doctor said was, you need to lose weight.
And I remember both of them came to me expressing that and Um, you know, I try to come from a perspective of, you know, not dismissing what the doctor said. Cause we also don't want to like mess up that relationship, but can we also look at things differently? Right? Like, can we look at it from a perspective of building strength or looking at other parts of your body that we can strengthen or mobilizing and take, just take way out of the picture, right?
Cause I think how frustrating is that, right? Where you go to your doctor and that's the only advice that you're given when. Yeah, there's so many other helpful pieces of advice that could be given. So do you want to just touch on that, Molly? Like, do you, do you talk to clients about that too? And like, how do you, how do you approach that relationship with your family doctor, if that's the only advice you're ever given?
Yeah, it is. It is frustrating and it is unfortunately something I, I have a very similar story from my own life and many clients. Um, yeah, so I know the wisdom is, or I know that the encouragement is to if you have the ability to speak back to your doctor. Potentially kind way and say, is this the advice you'd give me if I was in a presenting in a different body, or if I was in a straight size body, say, um, and it gives a chance again for that conversation.
And maybe if you've got the kind of doctor who's open to that conversation, you can talk about like, um, but what you know what what would another strategy be here besides weight loss. Um, It's a really tricky one, and it's so pervasive, um. We know that doctors are highly educated and capable, and they hold so much knowledge in their heads, but one of the pieces they don't hold is, is a lot of nutrition information.
I don't, and I don't know for physios if you, if there's something similar, but, I mean, that's why we have allied health professionals to help with these things, and doctors aren't the nutrition experts, and they certainly, Or at least it's not common to have to be intuitive eating or health at every size experts either.
Um, somebody I work with in the community who, who lives on a very low income and, and has a lot of kidney pain and is waiting for surgery, you know, she, she, she had to get, she had to go to a different city. to have an MRI based on her body size. That took a lot of coordinating to get there, get back, and then have to go again to meet with the surgeon.
And all the surgeon said was, um, you need to have bariatric surgery first, and then you can. And then this pain that you've been dealing with for a significant amount of time, then we'll look at that. Wow. It's unjust. That's so frustrating. Yeah. And that would be my argument with a family doctor that maybe doesn't have all the answers, doesn't have the education.
Refer, right? I think that at the end of the day, I try my best to do that, right? If there's somebody I'm working with that, you know, maybe feels outside of my scope, I 100 percent refer on. Yeah. So to me, that is the easy, instead of just resorting to, Oh, it's your weight. How about I send you to a physiotherapist?
How about I, you know, talk to this person, right? Like to me, that seems like the better, much better approach than just saying everything's to do with your weight. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It must be tiring for people to hear as well. And it does. That's what we know is that then they access their healthcare from their doctor less.
That's not good for your health. Definitely not. No. But again, you know, hopeful that some of these conversations will start to turn the direction and the other way to have these things be less pervasive, eh? That's right. And there are so many great providers out there nowadays to rightly lots of places to get this information and to sort of soak soak in a different kind of bathtub.
Even if you're not able to access those providers right and and that's that's one thing at least that people can do for themselves is to, to start to to read some other ideas or start to. You know, change your Instagram feed to less diet culture, more weight inclusion, inclusive care. And that can be comforting, right?
To just have that wonderful sense of it's not just me. Um, you know, I'm not, I'm not alone here. There are other people like me and there, and there are other alternative ways of thinking. So I love that. Yeah. So if somebody is listening, struggling with their relationship with food and their body, and they're thinking, Oh my goodness, I, you know, I'm in this phase of, I don't know where to go next.
What's sort of like your first little bit of advice that you would give that person? You know what, I, I think maybe the first thing that can be useful, because it is a, it's a, a bit of a steep learning curve and a bit of a shift, um, is the noticing, is just starting to notice. And I think one thing that's easy to notice once you start looking is, uh, looking for where diet culture pops up, um, because it's popping up all over the place.
Uh, I was watching a TV show last night, uh, with, with, I have a 12 year old son. So we watch the show Hudson and Rex. It's like, got a German shepherd, police dog. It's pretty, pretty great. Very Canadian show. Um, and last night on the show, they're talking about, uh, the two cops were getting coffee and the one is giving nutrition advice.
The other one saying, but why, I don't know why you're putting so much hazelnut creamer in your coffee. And then they get the young cop says, well, you know, whatever gets your happy hormones rolling. It's it's okay. Um, But, you know, tag culture, that pops up in your TV shows, it definitely pops up at the Thanksgiving table.
Um, and sometimes just starting to see that can be enough to realize, hey, it's, um, some of this is not about me, right? A lot of this is about society and some, some different ways of thinking, and maybe there's alternatives. So. I don't know. That's often a first step for me is if you're just, if you're not quite ready to access um, some weight inclusive care, start with a little bit of noticing and tracking and see where it pops up and then you've got that much information to go forward with.
Yeah, and just, yeah, give your, again, that self compassion piece that no wonder I'm thinking the way I'm thinking because I was raised in this environment and I think Thinking back to, um, there's an account on Instagram. Uh, I forget her, her name. I'll, I'll put it in the show notes, but she shows a lot of clips back to like the nineties and the early two thousands of like the biggest loser and America's next top model and all these shows that we were all obsessed with that are so damaging and like.
It's interesting because, you know, I used to watch The Biggest Loser and how did I not think it was wrong? Like, how did I watch the show and think this was okay? Right? Right? No, but that was like the entertainment value that we got and so damaging and no wonder, again, no wonder we all feel the way we feel.
Yeah, it's true. Yeah, those folks do this a great service though. The, those, the folks participating in that show, because they, you know, they've got research that they've done on, on those participants down the road, um, demonstrating again, how detrimental they went through was, but you know, that, that may help the rest of us.
And I guess that's true. Yeah. One brick at a time. So exactly. It's all part of the learning journey, I guess. Right. So true. Yeah. Awesome. What a great conversation, Molly. So if, uh, you know, the listeners listening to this content, uh, conversation today, and again, we've given a lot of information, what would be sort of like your one little take home advice that you want to leave your listeners with today?
Yeah, you know, uh, Evelyn Triboli, she's one of the people who, who, uh, created intuitive eating, one of the dietitians, and, uh, She, she's got some really great ways of phrasing things, so I'll just maybe share a quote from her, which is, Becoming an intuitive eater means letting go of the old way of surviving.
And opening up to a new way of viewing life and I really like that because it's so respectful of you did what you needed to do, and there's another option, and so I, you know, I'd love to for people to know that. Yeah, you worked hard, and it's okay to stop doing that now if you if you're ready to. Yeah, you only know what you know right, you only know what you know so yeah once you learn a different way of thinking then yeah you can start to move the needle in that direction.
Yeah, amazing, Molly. So if people are listening and they're thinking, okay, I'm taking these first steps and but I do think I need some support. I need some help. I need some guidance. How can people reach out to you and work with you? Oh, yeah, you can track me down. I'm at Molly Roberts RD for registered dietitian.
And I'd be happy to connect with you and or send you in the direction of somebody great. So Thank you for that. Yeah, I'll put that in the show notes if people want to reach out to you. Thank you so much, Molly. Again, such helpful information and hopeful that these conversations are going to be beneficial for, you know, our kids and our kids kids and have the conversations change.
For sure. Thank you so much for having me. It was a real treat for me. Thanks Rhonda. Thanks for listening to today's podcast. We hope you enjoyed the conversation. If you liked what you heard, we would love if you could share this with a friend, leave us a review or subscribe to anywhere that you listen to your podcasts.
Thanks for being here.
