Episode #04: What an Assessment and Program with a Pre/Postnatal Fitness Coach Looks Like
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In this episode, Rhonda talks about what it looks like to have an assessment and online program designed by a pre/postnatal fitness coach.
She talks about how she works in collaboration with internal pelvic floor physiotherapists to help her clients reach their goals of minimizing symptoms, increasing strength, improving overall wellness, and getting them back to the activities they love to do.
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Pelvic Health and Fitness Podcast Episode #04 - What an assessment and program with a pre/postnatal fitness coach looks like
We're excited to have you join us for this episode of Pelvic Health and Fitness. I'm Dayna Morellato, Mom, Orthopedic and Pelvic Health Physiotherapist. And I'm Rhonda Chamberlain, Mom, Orthopedic Physiotherapist and Pre Postnatal Fitness Coach. On this show, we have open and honest conversations about all phases of motherhood, including fertility, pregnancy, birth, postpartum, menopause, and everything in between.We also provide helpful education and information on fitness. The pelvic floor and many aspects of women's health, including physical, mental, and emotional wellness. Please remember as you listen to this podcast that this is not meant to treat or diagnose any medical conditions. Please contact your medical provider if you have specific questions or concerns.
Thanks so much for joining us. Grab a cup of coffee. Or wine. And enjoy!
All right. Welcome to episode four. Today, we're going to chat with Rhonda about her work as a pre and post natal fitness coach. So, yeah, so Rhonda, if someone comes for an assessment with you, what does that look like?
Yeah, so I, so I work three days a week still as a physiotherapist in person. Um, the pre post natal fitness coaching primarily exists online, so I do that on the other two days.
So if we're talking about that side of things, so typically what I do with my clients, I set up a one hour assessment with them virtually to start. And before they even come onto that chat, I send them a quite thorough intake form that they fill out for me. And so that talks about things like how their pregnancy went, what was their birth like, was there any interventions, did they have tearing.
Uh, what type of birth, what type of delivery did they have, um, and then we go into pretty thorough look at symptoms. So we talk about is there heaviness, so any prolapse symptoms, um, whether they have a diastasis that they know of, um, talking about just any pains, aches or pains, so whether that's pelvis, uh, low back, hip, that type of thing.
So they just sort of fill me in on where they're at currently. And then I also, um, ask them if they've been to see an internal pelvic floor therapist. Um, so I myself don't do the internal assessments. So I love working closely with internal therapists. So it's, you'll be happy to hear this, , that I'd say probably a majority, majority of them.
Have either seen one during pregnancy and just haven't booked it yet postpartum Or have already gone to see one by the time they come to see me, which is super awesome and so Yeah, so then I just get a bit of feedback from what they know from that therapist as to what's going on And then I just ask their permission to reach out to the therapist too.
And so then I usually get on a chat with their internal therapist to make sure that we're on the same page. And then we get into talking about, so I love talking about sort of holistic health. So we talk about, you know, like how is breastfeeding going? How is your sleep? Um, what, how is your mental health?
Um, so I sort of talk about whether they're talking to someone for their mental health as well. And then we get into sort of exercise and what that looks like for them. So what types of things did they do during pregnancy? Um, what have they been up to now? So depending how far postpartum they are, some women are, you know, starting to do a bit of something.
And then we talk extensively, and this is my favorite thing about their goals. So talking about sort of short term goals, what do they want to get into in the next sort of month to two months? And then dream big. What do you want to get into a couple of years down the road? Cause sometimes those can be different.
And that is something that I love talking about because I find, not every mom, and I don't want to generalize, but some clients that come to see me have not ever been asked that question. So even if they're somewhat active, um, whether it's because they've only been taught that exercise is for weight loss, sometimes they have a hard time wrapping their minds around.
And having exercise goals. So that is something I love to talk about. And we get into really awesome conversations about, you know, what do you want, do you want to do fun things with your kids? Do you want to go on trips with your husband and do, you know, go for hikes or, you know, the sky's the limit with what you want to get back to.
And so, and I know you're the same , like I'm very much like a client centered therapist. Like, I... You ultimately know where you want to go and what you want to do Let me just sort of like be the coach to take you there in baby steps, but I I don't want to put my Own goals onto you. So as much as I love strength training and that's the method I use to get people back into exercise Ultimately, it's with the plan in mind of where they want to end up with that strength training.
That's amazing. I love so much what you just said. I love that you kind of educate about The fact that what is exercise to you and what do you want to be doing and what are your goals here? I always remind my clients, motherhood is physical, like baseline level of activity every day is so much higher than it once was.
So I love that you kind of incorporate just like, what do you want to do with your kids and what do you know? And then what are your fitness goals? Yes. And then so we do sometimes get into talks, which again, I don't, um, demonize this, but we do get into talks about weight loss. That is, um, often a goal. And women have aesthetic reasons for getting back in exercise, which again is Not something I say is wrong or bad, but I also try to get women to explore other reasons outside of weight loss and aesthetics to have exercise be part of your life, which again, oftentimes is a new conversation for a lot of women, which still blows my mind because I'm sort of living in a bubble now where Exercise to me, I don't often really think about it as aesthetic anymore.
Sure, there are parts of me that still do, but overall, I just, I, my goals are to, yeah, play with my kids. I want to go for runs here and there if I need to. I want to go on a trip and do fun things, right? Those are usually what I try to focus on. And so when I can get my clients to start to shift. They're thinking towards that.
That's I love that. Yes, it's and it's so important for all those other things that you are asking about your assessment, right? Like, how are you guys sleeping? What's your mental health like? I'm really starting to coach around, you know, using exercise for those, you know, as part of that journey as well.
Yeah, yeah, totally.
If someone, you do your assessment and then do you have kind of like a go to with what things you like to start with in terms of strength training or do you, you know, how does cardio look and all those kinds of things? Yeah, so in that assessment, so after we sort of go over that intake form, then usually I'll take them through sort of just like a basic foundational movement scan.
So typically I'll look at a squat, I'll look at a deadlift or like a hinge type movement, I'll look at a single leg movement, so like a step up or a lunge. Um, we'll look at an overhead movement, so just, you know, lifting something over their head, and then usually a push up type movement, so I'll usually do like a wall push up or an incline push up, and just see how those are feeling.
If there's any symptoms right away, we'll sort of get into some strategies that, that they might work on to minimize some of those symptoms, um, just to get an idea of how they're moving, what feels good, what doesn't feel so good. Just so they have it. So I have a baseline, they have a baseline from, for where they're starting.
And then from there, typically I'll start with, um, Um, so it's sort of I call it like pelvic floor connection breathing. So, um, we'll go over sort of like what is your pelvic floor, first of all, and why is it important, especially again in those early postpartum stages, which that's interesting too, because sometimes I'll get women that are further along postpartum, but still have not been taught these things. So I think it's still, it's not maybe as essential because their body's sort of rehabbed pretty well already. But it's just cool to learn that stuff, right? Because a lot of us don't know it. So, um, so we talk about sort of like, inhale, exhale, um, relax, uh, inhale, relax, exhale, lift of the pelvic floor, slight contraction of the abdomen.
And then I do talk a lot about. Um, so because, again, I'm not an internal therapist, I don't know for sure what's happening with their pelvic floor, but I talk about how, yes, we need to sort of strengthen and do that Kegel motion, but equally, sometimes more important to learn that relaxation piece too. So oftentimes, yeah, I'll talk about, like, different positions or things that they can do to really focus on that full relaxation piece and, like, not just the pelvic floor, but let's relax our jaw, our neck, our shoulders.
Let's sort of like deregulate that nervous system. So we talk a lot about that the first day too, because most of us, especially during pandemic time, are living in this like heightened state of tension and stress. So I think a lot of us need more attention on the relaxation piece. I don't know if you find that , clinically.
Absolutely. I spent spending definitely a lot more time in the past year talking about downright down regulating a central nervous system and tightness in the public for more than ever before. Yeah, definitely. It's always part of my usual treatment. Because you're, you know, we have to put down the load on our muscles, no matter where those muscles are.
And I think for, I mean, at least when I think back about anything I knew about the pelvic floor was only ever contract. I didn't know until I took internal courses. You know, practicing as a physio for, you know, several years already that we should be relaxing the pelvic floor as well. So that I always kind of, that's one of my favorite things to do with clients is, yeah,
put down the blueberry, you know, exactly.
Yeah. Yeah. So we spend a lot of time on that. And then I, again, I always say, if you are working with an internal therapist, you know, have them again, assess what sort of state your pelvic floor is in, whether You are definitely someone that needs that strength piece or if it's more the relaxation piece So again, just to make sure that we're on the same page with what program i'm going to give them And then after that then we talk about so I spend that first Assessment talking just a lot about different strategies and habits that they might have So things like whether they have the habit of holding their breath, so Not even just with exercise whether they do that just with everyday activities, which I know is something I learned about myself Early postpartum that I would pick up the car seat and like hold my breath as i'm carrying it, you know to the car And then finally, when I put it down, I'm like, Oh, I wasn't even breathing that whole time.
Um, and then things like whether they find themselves bearing down. So again, if they're going to pick something up, if they feel themselves pushing, like they're going to take a poop, um, down into that pelvic floor, whether they're doing that multiple times throughout the day. We talk a little bit about posture.
So I always say, you know, I'm never going to tell you you have bad posture. I'm going to tell you you have favourite postures that you like to do a lot of. And so can we introduce other postures, other than the favourite ones, to give your pelvic floor a little bit of a more optimal position, more time throughout the days?
So this is especially true, you know, with breastfeeding moms that catch themselves in sort of that slouched, yeah, slouched, rounded forward position. which again, we can't, you can't avoid that. That's part of mom life. So can we work on different movements, positions, uh, postures to bring yourself out of that position a few more times throughout the day?
So we talk about that. Um, and then we, I usually do a self assessment of diastasis, not always. Um, cause again, I don't know if you find this , that Naturally, I feel like there's some women that are like terrified of it. So sometimes if I get that impression, I'll just kind of say like, have your pelvic floor, uh, therapist assess you.
But typically, as long as, you know, it's two fingers or less, it's not even necessarily something to be overly concerned about. Um, so yeah, so I do probably, I still probably do it like 80% of the time just to sort of get that baseline, um, test to see where they're at. Um, yeah, and then we slowly just start to talk about what exercise will look like for them and just keeping in mind symptoms to watch for as you get back into exercise.
So we talk about, you know, if you're leaking, if you're getting any, um, urgency symptoms with any type of the exercise that you're doing, let me know. If you're getting heaviness, if you're getting pelvic pain, if you're noticing, so we do touch on like coning or doming, um, if you're starting to notice that with any of the movements, um, keep me posted.
And then again, not having that fear mongering messaging that it's just information. It's just your body's way of talking to you, letting you know how it's doing. And that, for me as your coach, just gives me feedback for how I can sort of tweak and modify your program based on what you're telling me.
Yeah, that's so great. So very much a whole body approach. Looking at the person top to bottom, what you need to be doing. Posture. I love your chat about posture. I always say motherhood doesn't happen in perfect posture. So I like that. We have to be prepared for, you know, children running left and right and picking them up out of strange little corners.
But, um, yeah. So, I mean, very similar to what an assessment with a public floor physio looks like, right? Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So what is the most common reason that people come to you initially? Is it? Do you find that you get a lot of people who are like, listen, I'm having heaviness and I need to return to exercise or I'm leaking and I, you know, or is it a combination of both?
Yeah, I'd say that's a good question. And I'd say so far it's a combination of both. So, um, so I am just, you know, growing and I'm starting to build a referral network. which is amazing. So I do have some pelvic floor physios locally, um, that I find from them. I'll get clients that maybe are feeling pretty good because they've been seeing the internal therapist for a bit.
So their symptoms are pretty much under control and they would just appreciate to have someone be there for them to coach them back into exercise. So, um, because I think again, a lot of the therapists that I connect with, um, just don't have the space or the time or. the spot in their schedule to keep that person on to really make that progress back to exercise.
So then that's when they come to see me. So that's a portion. And then I do have, uh, clients that, um, now that I'm trying to grow my Instagram a bit, I do get some clients that see me on there and reach out to me and say, yeah, so I am having that same sort of heaviness feeling that you're talking about feeling like a tampons falling out.
Like, what the heck do I do now? Because I'm terrified. to make it worse and, um, so those people I love working with too to just sort of, again, just minimize that fear messaging and just remind them that their bodies are resilient and they will heal. Uh, sometimes they might just need a little bit of hand holding to help them get back there with a bit more confidence.
So, yeah, a bit of both and I, I like that variety. I like having sort of the people that aren't super symptomatic because then it's just a matter of like, Showing them that they still, even if they're feeling really good, it's still quite important to take it slow. Because that's what I did wrong. I was pretty, you know, symptom free for the most part.
And then when I did push it too quickly, that's when my symptoms started to come. So again, I don't want to use that as like a warning. If you rush back, you're going to have symptoms. But just a reminder that our bodies did go through a lot with pregnancy, postpartum, with delivery. That we want to honor that and we want to rehab our body in a way that's going to support us long term.
Absolutely. And I know myself as a pelvic physio, first of all, I think it's important to remind everybody that you also are a physiotherapist. So you're coming with all of that wealth of knowledge as well in terms of injury prevention or maybe even addressing, you know, underlying or chronic injuries that are there.
Yeah. Incorporating that into their programs as well. Yeah.
Such an amazing, such an amazing thing. And I know myself in my own practice, there's, you know, a couple of clients very recently that I referred on to coaches like yourself, just for that very reason, in terms of maybe, you know, higher level athletes and just need a little bit more than what we're going to be able to do or accomplish in a in a session, but also because they have access to you a little bit more than they would to a physio, physio traditionally.
True. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then I'll just explain kind of what the next steps would be. So after we do the assessment. Then so again, I sort of have a picture in mind of what their goals are what their symptoms are So I use a free app called true coach for the fitness programming And it's a really awesome app that they can have on their phone And I created a database of myself demoing Hundreds of, of, uh, exercises, um, so they all link to YouTube.
So basically as I set up that program, um, I do three days a week workout. So basically they get an email Monday, Wednesday, Friday with their workout for that day. They click it, they open it to the link, and then the link will have a breakdown. So usually I'll do like a warm up, a bit of a strength workout, a bit of like a conditioning depending on where they're at, and then some mobility and pelvic floor relaxation at the end.
And then each portion has a YouTube link. with myself, showing them what that movement is. So, it's not a program where it's just handed to you to figure out. Truly, I'm there to support you and show you what to do. Um, even though I'm not physically or virtually. Um, I try to be there with you to coach you.
Um, I try to be again as, as there as I can in terms of that virtual program. So, um, and that is something that I was sort of like wondering how to administer that initially. I think as a physio, I. You might relate to this. We have a bit of like control issues, right? Where like, I've been trained, I've been trained my whole career to like, watch people move and correct their movements and tweak this, try this.
Right. And so initially that like releasing of the program for them to do on their own was challenging for me, but in a really good way. Because I have, you know, Physio Detective Antony Lowe in my head a lot, where his whole thing is like, try to empower women to realize that they know what to do. Their bodies know what to do.
As much as we can, again, give them sort of that, like, road map. Ultimately, let them do what they want to do. right? So I just kept that in my mind and just, you know, let the clients do their thing. And what I quickly learned was, um, especially newly postpartum moms love that approach because they could do it whenever, right?
So some moms literally will put their kids to bed and they're doing the workout at like nine o'clock, 10 o'clock at night, because that's the only time they can get it in and it's important to them. So I wouldn't be able to coach them at that time, right? So they love that part of it. And then the cool thing within true coach is it's um, a two way messenger as well So after each of the workouts, they can comment and so typically I'll just, um, tell my clients to just let me know, even if it felt good, just say like, felt great, you know, or I had a bit of sensation with leaking with such and such, any suggestions, and then I'll just get back to them with some modifications, you know, try breathing out, try landing softer, like all these things to sort of modify, bye.
That and then if there's issues With the layout of the workout or they're finding it's a bit too challenging I can then modify the rest of the week or next week to fit where they're at in their, in their recovery.
Yeah. So, so awesome. Thank you. Um, and then do you do any sort of formal check ins with your clients?
Yeah. So as part of the program, they check in with me virtually every four weeks. So once a month, basically, um, we'll do a check in. So again, especially for those newly postpartum moms definitely important. And then the, so I do have clients. Um, so I have my newly postpartum is called foundation. So strong at home foundations.
And then I have some clients that sort of graduate to my strong at home membership. And so those are clients that have been through, uh, the foundations program, which is two levels of 12 weeks, um, to the membership. And from there, they can stay on as long as they want. So. Those clients typically are pretty much symptom free.
They might have things that creep up here and there. So they, they can check in with me every four weeks if they want, but at that point it's optional. Yeah.
Yeah. That sounds so great. And I think a common theme that I'm hearing from you as well as empowerment and education, right? A lot of us, myself included, and I think as well as physios, we didn't know a lot of this stuff.
So it's really important and we feel very passionate about just educating our clients and you finally you spend. A lot of your sessions, just educating.
Oh, big time. Yeah. Yeah, I think. And again, that's the thing is, um, as much as I say, you know, it's. It is a fitness program, but that is just a small piece of the puzzle, right?
Like it's, yeah, people, you know, love exercise and they want to get back into it, but I think the thing I love talking about most is, yeah, the education piece. I love talking about like the mental health piece. I'm not a mental health provider, but I've had my own struggles, you are the same. And so I love talking about that and how important that is to address those issues.
Um, you know, talking about sleep and stress and hormones from what I know about hormones. Um, just talking about all the different factors that are involved in our recovery, that again, it's not just about the, the workout and about the exercise piece. Absolutely.
Um, now there's a couple things that I want to pick your brain about.
And I know we've had conversations about these before, but, uh, two things, one, you talk a lot about the athlete brain. So what is the athlete brain and how do you coach someone who's coming from that perspective?
Yeah, love that question. And so I do have clients come to see me that have sort of Even if it's not like a super competitive background, they have a background where they love exercise.
They love fitness. They love sports. And they'll come to me basically with, um, asking me to guide them in a way that they don't succumb to the pressure of like getting back too quickly. Right. So I, you know, Instagram that that's my story. that my athlete brain got the best of me and I, I think we talked in my episode, um, got back to like the CrossFit open crazy hardcore workout at 10 weeks postpartum and that did not go so well.
So I always say, honestly, and I'm not going to have another kid, but if I, if I did, I would hire a coach just for that specific reason to sort of like pull the reins in on me. Right. So. So some of these clients, yeah, they basically just like the fact that they have a laid out program. That and I think athletes like that too, right?
Like they like checking off the boxes Like even if it's less than what they would want to do They like the idea of okay. I'm like checking the boxes and like following a program, right? So it satisfies that athlete brain that i'm doing something Even if it's kind of easy compared to what i'm used to But I know it's the right thing and I really coach them through that It's gonna feel easy.
You're gonna think like rhonda really like i'm an athlete I can do way more than this But remember the slow road is actually faster in the end and this is what's gonna help you Get back honestly feeling even stronger than if you rush it. Absolutely.
Yeah, they said pull back the reins because that that is totally I I know I have that conversation with clients sometimes about just going slow and especially with my pregnancy Clients, I often am chatting In that time about that postpartum period and almost prepping them and priming them for that rest period and then a slow, gradual return.
Do you find that when you see people? Because you see people during pregnancy as well. Yeah. Yeah. So that's actually, I'm, I'm building out the Strong at Home Pregnancy Program right now. So I have One sort of like trial client that's, uh, doing it with me right now and she's doing amazing. And so, yeah, so her and I, that's what we often chat about is everything that you're doing right now for your body is going to help you that much better in the postpartum period because she's already sort of recognizing that like slow down mentality.
I don't need to prove my fitness to myself or anyone else. Um, the choices I'm making now are honoring, you know, where I'm at, how my body's changing, as much as I maybe can do certain things, maybe I'm gonna scale back a little bit because, you know, of the impact that it might have on my long term core and pelvic health.
So then I think it's just that mindset shift, right? So I think that's really what needs to happen in the pregnancy period, is recognizing that. Again, our bodies are changing. There's so much going on. How can we sort of honor that by sort of like calming down that athlete brain even in pregnancy? And then that will just carry over into that postpartum that much better.
Absolutely not. Even so much, yes, athlete brain for sure. But even, and which brings me to the other thing I wanted to pick your brain about, but I know it can be a big identity shift, especially if you're someone, or maybe even I shouldn't say especially, but we have a certain idea of what our body image is prior to pregnancy.
And so starting to prepare people for postpartum. What are your thoughts on this? It's a great idea of getting your body back. How do we coach people around
that? Yes, and I shouldn't say uh so clearly like that because I gave it. It's in the messaging though. That's the messaging. It's in the messaging and I, I guess fell prey to that in a certain regard.
So yeah, because even during pregnancy, I actually talked about this, um, recently. Um, Um, even during pregnancy, I think because I knew it was temporary and as a physio, I sort of knew what it looked like. So if you're injured, I knew what it looked like to sort of scale back. So I think I wrapped my mind around exercise is going to look different during pregnancy and I was okay with that.
But I think even during pregnancy, I was counting down the days to have the baby. So I could get back my identity as an athlete again, right? Because as much as I was still working out and I still, even again, knowing what I know now, I probably could have scaled back even a little more in my pregnancy.
But I did a decent job, but then like literally as soon as babies were born, I was like, okay, let's go. It's go time, right? Because again, that's sort of even what is told to us in society. It's like, you get that six week check, checkup and you take that as a green light. Like, because no one talks about it differently, right?
Like we are starting to change that messaging and people, you know, are. But very often it's taken as a green light go. Absolutely.
And there's a lot of praise that surrounds that. I know that was my experience with my first as well. Like you work out during your pregnancy and everybody's saying, Oh, you're doing great.
You're going to have this magical labor and delivery. And then you're back at the six week mark and people are praising you like, Oh, you don't even look like you had a baby or. You know, maybe you're back at the gym and you're lifting the same weight. So, you know, it doesn't even seem like you were gone.
And there's a lot of praise that comes with that. And yeah. And again, as much as I, you know, that now, but yeah, yeah. When I, when I look back at that time, as much as I like, try to say, I didn't like that phrase I did. Right. And, and I did, you know, the comments, Oh yeah, your baby's going to come out with a six pack.
And like, Oh, you're so hardcore. Look at you still go during your pregnancy. And then even again, getting back postpartum. And it's interesting too, because I think it's a lot of internal pressure. I don't think, we think that people outside of us are expecting us to do A, B, and C, but it's more internal, right?
So I had this internal pressure. I'm a physiotherapist. I do CrossFit. I work at a CrossFit gym. I need to set this example, set the bar for what a fit postpartum mom looks like. Right. And then so I did, so that's for me when I had like a mega identity crisis slash shift was that postpartum second time around because I was trying to be this fit mom, you know, fit physio example.
And then when my body wasn't there yet. All of a sudden I was like, Oh my goodness, who am I like what, what do I do now. And so I panicked and I stopped working out for two weeks. Because I was like, this is all I know, this is all I know. And for whatever reason, I didn't put puzzle pieces together. I know how to get people back from a back injury.
Why didn't I think, why didn't I connect the dots and think, this is the same thing, or like similar. Yes, right. Suddenly that did eventually clue in that. Oh, I'm supposed to rehab my body the same way I would a back pain patient, right? Once that clicked. And so that's if you, you know, work with me, the first at least four weeks of your program, if you're newly postpartum, look like a physio session, right?
So it'll be glute bridges, bird dogs, um, unweighted squats, lunges if they feel okay, right? Like just very Basic foundational movements and that focus on breathing and just slow seeing how your body feels and then slowly, slowly ramping that up.
Absolutely. I love it. And I, I feel like I'm constantly not defending, but I'm always priming my people when they come at six weeks, like these are the, this is the base of the pyramid.
I know these aren't super like I've, you know, you're almost defending it a little bit, but I very. And I fully believe that those foundational exercises are so important to get back to, you know, snatches and toes to bar and running 10 plus kilometers and all of those things.
Yeah, yeah. And, and what I always like to say too is, you know, I fully believe in body autonomy so we'll have these discussions, but if I have say like a runner, and they're telling me, Like I want to go for a run we again we have the talk and so I you know Informed consent to me means knowing all of the parts of that decision, right?
so Yeah, so if I you know if getting back to running Asap at six weeks postpartum is the goal I'll say That's amazing, you know, but just so you know, like that could put a little bit of added pressure on your pelvic floor. It can take up to three months for those muscles to heal. Um, sort of just talk through what that looks like for their body and then if they still are ready and wanting to go for that run, have at it and then just report back to me how it felt.
Right? Because I'm not. Yeah, I'm not here to give you hard and fast rules. Let's see how things feel. If that's what you want to try, awesome. And then again, if that's bothersome, let's talk about it. If it feels great, that's awesome too, right? Then let's keep going and see how we can progress from there.
Awesome. Yeah. That's awesome. So lots of give and take. Yes, totally. Yeah, back and forth all the time. Fantastic. Yeah. So where, where can everybody find you on Instagram? Yeah, so, at @rhondachamberlainpt is my handle and then I do have a website www.rhondachamberlainpt.com Just keep it nice and simple.
That's where you can find me, so I have an outline of all my programs on there if you want to learn more. Awesome! Well, thanks for chatting with me tonight, Rhonda. Yeah, thanks Dayna
